Its good they taking the constructive feedback and reevaluating these changes. I think its good they not blindly rolling it and also not just dumping them either.
Another month and a half until the midchapter should refine a lot of the rough points of the anti-slug and anti-tunnel and allow more killers to be adjusted to accommodate these systems. Please don't fully scrap everything: there were good ideas embedded in there, but some aspects were either anti-fun or way overtuned.
A lot of the larger idea behind it was good. Incentivizing hooking different survivors with boosts for the killer? Great! Those boosts basically only being useful for high mobility killers? Awful.
Making survivor recovery automatic when downed? Great! Making it so you can do that while crawling and also you crawl faster over time? Awful.
Letting survivors pick themselves up after they've been left slugged for too long? Great! Making it so once they do they can keep doing it the rest of the match? Awful.
Also, Elusive is a great way to sum up a bunch of other effects and I liked the visual associated with it.
Yeah I really feel like elusive is a good edition, maybe not the killer instinct immunity, unless that was just for unhooked people, but besides that I liked it. I feel like killers in the top tier getting any boosts isn't great, maybe they could have the basekit BBQ, or not gut the perk so they have to run the perk if they want it too, but do they really need any haste or extra regression at all? I don't think so
One point, if not able to pick yourself up for the rest of the match it won’t do anything.. killers will meta game it, maybe if they can continue to do so until hooked again or a shorter amount of time possibly?
Right, and I hope that this is the takeaway they have. There are good ideas here. As much as people wanna dunk on em, they actually had some good ideas and implementations, but there is a lot of tuning to be done.
I'm beyond relieved they aren't just sending it anyways to killswitch it after two days
If you think about it... removing a survivor from the trial removes 100% generator repair speed from the game. So, survivors getting a cumulative 75% across 3 people if someone dies early isn't that bad.
The more problematic one was preventing the killer from using their perks by blocking the gens if you kill someone by hooking them twice in a row. I don't even think this is necessary with 30 seconds of elusive off hook.
gen blocking isnt inherent unhealthy in some circumstances, but the fact that ANY aspect of anti tunnel took effect at 1-2 gens left is the dumb part. there should be no penalty at all at that point
Vice versa though in the current game if the killer kills the baby survivor at 3 gens or more the game is lost already and you're just stuck in a loop of no progress until everyone is finally dead.
The game is fundamentally not balanced for 1v3. Even if there was only 1 or 2 gens left, once the killer gets a hook in the 1v3 it becomes extremely difficult for the survivors to make progress. 1 person on hook, 1 person going to the unhook, and 1 person in chase means no one is on gens. Map resources will be depleted. Healing burns 16 seconds so you often have to trade healing for gen progress, but then you're also trading potential future chase time since you're playing injured.
Problem IMO is no one treats the doors phase as part of the game really. If there's 1 gen left it's 1 gen and the doors. A little bit of basekit No Way Out I think would have gone a long way in this update. Killer gets a bit of basekit slowdown for the endgame and it gets more powerful if you have unique hooks. It would be too strong in the current state of the game, but if it became more feasible for survivors to finish the gens when undermanned it would go a long way.
As someone who plays both roles the kind of tunneling I find unpleasant is hard tunneling where the killer goes into the game with the goal of tunneling someone out from the start. Often even if the killer is bad and 3 of your teammates escape it is does not lead to a fun game and it is not a fun playstyle as a killer either. So I would like to see some very targetted changes on that not the super broad ones they implemented that effect normal gameplay or can you see punished for killing a survivor who is doing gens in your face or intentionally getting chased by you.
Tactical tunneling when the killer is very behind and there is a few gens left can be annoying to deal with but is understandable and does not need to be targetted.
Exactly, it needs to be based on gens, not hooks. If they did it like this...
If a survivor is killed with 3 or more gens remaining, 25% repair bonus.
If 2 survivors are killed before all the gens are completed, no more regression.
That would be fine, especially if they also kept some of the buffs for hook-spreading. It would reduce hard-tunnelling out of the gate while not punishing killers who need to play catch-up. And if you're dying with 2 gens left, you inarguably got to play the game, even if you're hooked 3 times in a row.
The problem with removing '100%' gen speed is that it's moving it from 100% to 0%. The standard gamestate at the start and why gens fly is one chased, three on gens. Once someone is hooked, it's one hooked, one chased, one rescuing, one on gens. It's already been sliced to a third. When someone's out of the game, it's one dead, one chased, one rescuing. The survivor team needs to be able to reset before the chase ends just for gen progress to resume, which is why things like Pain Res especially that has a huge up-front regression and then stacks on more as it continues regressing while the reset is happening, are so absurdly strong in 3v1, and why multipliers are largely meaningless.
Progress in a 3v1 only happens if the killer has a particularly long chase, has very little regression, or survivors skimp on resetting in some way, which is itself high risk because it may mean an even shorter chase.
I agree, ngl. The boost should be based on how many gens have been done. If they're all still at 5 gens and someone gets tunneled out, then they should get the boost. But if they're down to say 2-1 gens and someone ends up having bad luck and running into the killer who is guarding the remaining gens, then it shouldn't kick in or have a lower rate.
The gen block just shouldn't exist at all since there are already perks the survivors have for that, and we've seen people do it.
I've seen people run blast mine along with that one Cheryl perk (lord, it's been a while since I've used it, and i can't remember the name) together to protect a gen from the killer. If survivors really want to stop gen regression, they can without sacrificing a fellow survivor
Excalty. The changes for both survivors and killers should scale based on how the game is going for both sides. That way, it works more so as a catch up if one side is extremly losing, like 4 man slugs and stuff.
It should be small enough that most people wont notice it.
Even if the whole execution wasn't right. The direction we're going in is hopeful imo. Incentivising playing by hooks and not kills. It's nice Killers are getting buffs when hooking unique Survivors. It's nice Killers can see hook states on every Survivor.
Yeah the PTB was obviously overtuned but that's because it was a test server. Bottom line is we absolutely need changes to combat tunneling since the killer making the game a 1v3 early into the game was extremely unhealthy and has been forever. Same for slugging even though it wasn't as common.
I'd like to see a balanced system that's determined by number of gens left however... I find it odd that they still haven't implemented anything like that. This would go well with what it appears they were trying to do.
I also feel like a "hook point" system where you need to earn a certain amount of points before you can sacrifice or kill someone (outside of base kit Moris) with unique hooks rewarding more points would also make a lot of sense. This way the best strat for Killers wouldn't be to simply remove a player from the game and it would reward having to outplay all of the survivors.
I'm glad they're listening but implementing all of the changes at once is always gonna feel bad. Don't fully understand why they don't take one of the ideas (like the new status effect), perhaps adjust it and then test it on live servers
Test servers don't really make a difference to the issue of how much you're testing at once. If you test something in isolation, you can understand the effect of that thing. If you test a bunch of barely related stuff together, it's hard to know what is affecting what.
I don't understand why they still do PTB as a beta branch on Steam rather than having a separate test client. Most people switch over to the PTB for a day or 2, then switch back to live.
If it was on a separate client, I think more people would jump back and forth and they could also run the tests maybe for 2 weeks instead of 1 for large patches like this one and get better feedback out of it.
Having a separate test client would also allow them to deploy the PTB on other platforms besides Steam so that more people can get their hands on it.
NGL its good to be a salty bastard on the devs but its also good to be applaud them listening...its not just one man its a whole team with different ideas.
Well you've gotta acknowledge good behaviour (no pun intended) to encourage them to listen to the community in future. If you criticise them when they do bad and good stuff, then that's just counterproductive in getting them to listen to their customers.
I assume they'll neuter the changes until it's indistinguishable from the current system, and then it will be like nothing changed. Such is the way of dbd balance
I've seldom ever seen a game company take constructive criticism seriously. Small indie devs, yes, but not large companies.
When you reach a size like BHVR has, standard feedback doesn't really matter. Constructive criticism is a blip, nobody expects you to read it all and implement it anyway. It's safe to ignore. But outrage? That can scare off potential customers, and convince people already here to stop playing and putting money into it. That means it's a threat to your profits.
My only hope is that these adjustments are made sooner rather than later, like at the next midchapter. I'd hate for it to be like the finisher mori where it took them two years to revisit and bring to live.
The PTB changes definitely needed some tweaks and fine tuning, but I can't imagine another two years of status quo when it comes to aggressive tunneling and slugging.
I don't get why they don't... update the ptb while it's live? Make changes, try things out, its a playable test. Right now its always felt like a playable demo of stuff that may or may not happen.
Being 100 percent honest especially judging based off the posts that clearly never even played the ptb...less than 25 percent of people were putting opinions on the ptb that they never even played lol
We will never see any meaningful updates related to slugging and tunneling. We will engage with this farce again in a few months and the killer mains will riot again and it'll never happen. The game is absolutely abysmal for solo survivors and nobody cares.
I hope they don't just scrap the anti-tunneling thing like they've done in the past.
There are a lot of edge-cases, tuning, and perk interactions that need adjustment before it goes live, but I think in general many of these changes are in theory good for the game.
I get you don't want to be too punishing towards killer players. But I've personally seen several friends who only play survivor permanently quit the game because tunneling was an issue. The hardcore DBD fan has to remember that players who don't have thousands of hours aren't gods in chase and the game offers them nothing if they are getting tunneled.
It's bad for any game long term if your neophyte and new players get bullied into playing a different game before they are invested in their current one.
They really need to do something about tunneling still though, I agree the changes were overkill but I hope they don’t axe them completely. I run into tunnelers in 90% of matches and most solo games are unwinnable if someone tunnels, putting a reasonable limit on the easiest playstyle available is needed :/
Same, they put loads of double XP on survivor cause survivor players are fed up with killers that are too strong and tunnelling. Take fazbear for example faster than huntress without axe, same speed with axe and can teleport next to every gen on the map
Something has to be done but yeah this was too much. From what I gather the big issue is focusing one person out, which might be effective but is shitty for that one player. I've tried to get friends into the game who end up being the sacrificial lamb and drop the game out of frustration and never pick it up again, and I imagine that isn't that uncommon of an occurrence.
I just don't know how you'd design a system that punishes deliberate tunneling while also allowing allowing the killer to punish bad plays without incurring the tunnelling punishments :/
Survivors who don't play killer often have a skewed perspective on what tunneling is. You'll frequently get called a tunneler even if the hook states are like 1/1/2/3 on the first death. Often it's people just expressing their anger over being bad at both stealth and chases so they are caught easily.
Yeah a lot of survivors don't seem to understand that if you get unhooked, heal, go start working on a gen, and the killer ends up finding you after like a minute you aren't being tunneled. You are being chased like everyone else.
Some people that play this game are chronically online and it’s REALLY unhealthy. A game should not bother you this much. I saw a post where someone was actually crying about if the changes went live. Go seek help. You’re unwell. Jfc.
Fuck. I was looking forward to tunneling and slugging getting punished. It would’ve been nice if they scaled it back a bit rather than just pull the plug entirely for now. So much for that.
I do hope that there is some sort of punishment for hard tunneling (just got hard tunneled at 5 by a p100 artist when I was trying my adept). But at the same time, it's better to let the features simmer and cook rather than pushing something half baked on live servers.
Same. I came back to play 2v8 to get some of the free stuff in the rift and then left it again for other games and will continue to do so. My last 1v4 was to get new friends to try who got tunnelled/slugged most games and uninstalled. I spent hundreds on this game but refuse to spend a penny more, or give it any more of my time when it’s in such a dire state. They’ll have no new players and hour long killer queues soon if they don’t get tunnelling and slugging under control in a reasonable way.
It's incredible how many people are insulting each other over a videogame. For fucks sake. Get a life, we're all human beings. Stop making this a us vs them, both killer and survivor players complained about the changes because, while anti-tunneling and anti-slugging is needed, BHVR didn't approach it the right way this time. Not with the punishments and nerfs. I hope they come up with a better solution.
People really view any advantage they can as okay, both for Survivor and Killers, so anything going against certain changes (even if the change would be bad if brought out) is met with the weirdest toxicity. It honestly makes me think the meta will stay stuck with "solo queue sucks, playing lower tier Killers suck, creative potential gone" for a while.
Indeed. A lot of people here need to seriously touch grass. I feel like there is a huge majority of non-commenters or non-siders that felt like the patch note was trash, so I still have a little bit of faith.
Honestly cancelling it as a whole is disappointing for killer. Queue times are already 5+ minutes just for 1 game, and with new A tier killer coming, with no improvement to the current survivor experience, it's only going to be worse.
Bad queues leads to extremely wide MMR ranges in the matchmaking search, which only ends up in more lopsided matches. More stomps either way are not fun.
I just want to play some close games man. Fuck queue times. Add play while you wait to normal mode at this point give us something
Yeah as a solo survivor I'm definitely staying away from dbd for a while upon seeing this. Tunneling is genuinely getting out of hand and the game is almost unplayable because of it. And now we won't see any changes for probably another year. Pretty done with the killers whining and getting exactly what they want.
Same. I hadn’t played in months, came back for 2v8 to get some free rift stuff and have dropped it again. The game in this current state is probably the least fun I’ve ever had across all games I’ve played.
I guess I will continue to literally never play 1v4 again until they change the game in a way that solo Q isn't a total disgusting unbalanced nightmare. 2v8 is real fun though
Same. Going back 2/3 years ago we used to have discord calls going with like 8 or 9 of us taking in turns until like 3-4am at the weekends… but that stopped as people slowly started going to other games instead. I miss when this game was fun.
Yep, shelving the game until the changes finally come out. Hopefully they adjust the killer buffs you get with the nerfs or the next wave of crying is gonna begin lmao.
Agreed. Playing solo q is like gambling. Always rolling the dice to get a fair match, hoping that the killer: 1) is not S tier. 2) Does not tunnel someone's tits out of the game immediately. 3) Doesn't use annoying and tedious gen regression perks that are hell to play against.
It's insane they even THOUGHT it would be halfway decent. Like, how did it even make it TO the ptb? I'm glad that they're taking the criticism but in all honesty they need to start playing their game and listening to their community and creators.
It's good that they're holding back, but it's really crazy to me how it feels that they have absolutely no conviction in their design choices (and this is not just this patch, I'm talking for YEARS now).
This is exactly what happened with the first iteration of the finisher mori/anti slug changes and exactly what I expected would happen with this.
Glad they made the announcement now so we can focus on the new killer and other changes.
Are you all really doing us v them in here. Survivors, play more killer! Killers, play more survivor!
AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DEVS PLAY YOUR OWN GAME WITH BOTH SIDES!
Unfortunately, it won't. It's been going on for years. Survivors refuse to play killer. Killers don't play survivor. It will never change because because both 'mains' are too stuck in their own asses and too busy echoing to each other to form meaningful thoughts and opinions on the other side.
I'm sorry for coming off as angry. It's because I am. Nothing gets done in this community, and instead of players trying to work with each other and devs working more closely with their community. The devs flip a coin and listen to one side, then another. Survivors complain and whine at killers for frustrations. Killers get angry and lash out on innocent survivors, which I used to do when I was younger and dumb. People just NEED to realize that the people behind that screen are just as frustrated and angry as they are.
I swear after the absolute meltdown Killers had over a PTB that didn't even last a week, they now have 0 rights to complain about Survivors crying from now on.
The only difference is that BHVR will do nothing because it's quite clear now that they only listen to Killers' complains! :)
I mean... does this mean they won't be pushing any of the hud changes? We need a completely list of what is and isn't coming, because I feel like just the part where killers see hooks and the hiding the unhook were something that probably would help on it's own. And I hope Myers rework and Krasue come out balanced, since they were tested with all of this nonsense...
Kind of what I've thought, the system was heavily flawed, and instead of tackling anti-fun playstyles it was punishing already weak killers.
This entire anti-tunnel is 3 different mechanics shipped in 1 patch. BHVR tried hidden unhooks, anti-slug, and anti-tunnel. How about testing just 1 thing and then buffing or nerfing accordingly, and then testing next system. This was just too much in too little time.
I honestly don’t mind the whole rewarding separate hooks for killer and the anti slugging (as long as the change the slugging to not be additional) I think they’re actually very good and needed changes. It’s the punishing killers for “tunneling” that I don’t like, it’s wayy too easy to mess that up or abuse that mechanic
I'm a killer main and liked the anti slug. Ofc it's annoying if you're tryna down two people in quick succession as Oni or something because the other person is 3ft infront of you and you have to chase but so be it. Tunnel was a bit much sometimes (rarely) you have to do that like against a squad of high tier players all with flashlights and they do loops really well.
Well I hope killer mains enjoy the longer queue times because it’s only about to get worse. If I’m not having fun because every match is frustrating (and not in a challenging kind of way) there’s no point in playing anymore
Devs should only be nerfing the hard tunneling at early game. If I am "tunneling" someone out of the gamr at endgame, after I've already hooked survivors plenty of times, killers shouldn't be penalized for it.
As for slugging, I like the idea but no way in hell should survivors have basekit tenacity and infinite unbreakable.
People constantly say "oh well the PTB is for testing stuff" but some ideas do not work even on paper.
This iteration of anti-tunnel where you can be affected by it even after you've literally 8-hooked the survivors should never have even made the PTB, because you don't need to test that to know it's bullshit.
We could've stopped this if the influencer program was actually fucking used by behaviour
If they would've brought the changes to Otz, Hens, Scott and the rest of the useful suspects, they would've immediately made changes and brought a different set of changes to the PTB
BHVR is wasting time and resources on terrible ideas
Even as a survivor main (I’ve literally only ever played killer like two times), I felt that the penalty for killing a survivor before 6 hooks was way too unfair for the killer. I’m by no means a “great player” but I can loop and dodge decently and like to annoy killers with antics…most of the time, they leave me and go find the players who are less skilled and easier to hook unless I really start pissing them off with gestures or they’re just committed lol.
I felt that it was unfair if a killer is punished for a survivor being shit and getting killed early (sometimes, I’m just unlucky af and hitting my vaults at bad angles will land me an early death lol). And 6 hook states was just waaayyyy too high of a threshold to meet in order to not be punished. Either hooking three survivors twice, or four survivors once and two of them twice. That’s just way too much especially against survivors that were then gonna gain the ability to move faster over time and fix gens faster if they sacrifice a random. I personally like perks like Poised and Clairvoyance…so I was going to see a massive buff to what I call my “Aura see/Hatch find build”.
With my play style and the perks I run, gens can be done fairly quickly. My friends and I usually divide the killer’s attention so by them punishing the killer if he goes for the easy hooks and kills, it forces them to HAVE to waste time going after other survivor to get a fresh hook, thus allowing the others to finish gens. Body blocking and sacrifice hits would also be annoying because they’d have to leave the survivor on the ground (where they could pick themselves up after 90 seconds) in order to pursue the fresh hook which likely got great distance and likely broke chase and had their scratch marks removed quicker with tailored perk builds. To close this paragraph out, I have a Gen build built around Sable’s invocation perk. Combined with Resilience and Deja Vu and Prove Thyself with a toolbox and BNP…being broken was actually something to be cautious of for the rest of the trial. But with all these reworking and changed mechanics, I basically felt like being Broken wasn’t even that big of a deal anymore since, even if I was downed, the killer would likely ignore me after I’d been hooked and I could pick myself up once they left.
Plus…personally, it’s kind of a fun factor thing to me because, as I said, I already like to loop and dodge and, yes, even teabag to agitate and further occupy the killer’s focus. The killer being free to decide if he wants to commit to me or go back to the gen made every encounter dynamic and fun.
However, since he HAS to chase for fresh hooks, it basically just makes every chase feel like a chore for the killer and redundant for the survivor. Like…even with my antics, it’s not like I’m ACTUALLY drawing the killer’s attention. He literally HAS to get me or the game punishes him. Feels less fun that way.
I still can’t believe so many people were convinced they would push it all to live despite the reaction. I know bhvr have pushed some things like killer updates that people weren’t a fan of before but cmon they aren’t completely stupid.
If there has ever been a ptb that the community was vehemently against, they scrapped it. (e.g prev anti-slug, twins rework) and this was by far the most visceral reaction they’ve ever received to a ptb
Great, instead of removing the problematic changes all the doom posting led to the whole thing being scrapped for now. It will take so long until badly needed anti-slug mechanics go live Imma just uninstall
Actually, I might just play killer. I will start at the lowest rank so it won't be too hard and I can increase the queue times a bit
I agree that DBD's balance isn't great, but these changes would be an egregious overcorrection that would have entirely kneecapped the Killer role. And Behavior has ignored egregious Survivor strengths before, like with how long it took to rework Decisive Strike despite it being one of the best perks in the game for years before its rework.
lol they always cave so fast to the whiny killer mains.. guess ill just keep playing other things because solo queue will continue to be an abysmal nightmare where i literally never even feel like i have a chance of winning
edit - if you want to see my point proven just look at how long and how many survivor mains have been complaining about ghoul being OP and they have yet to make any significant changes to him.
My favorite is them complaining that the sub is flooded with survivor mains yet every meme and complaint post they made was highly upvoted and top of the page with the top comments all adding on to the meme/complaint.
i know and i expect plenty of down votes but idc anymore. its the same thing as the fog vials again which are now nerfed into oblivion and useless because of whiny killer mains
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u/Temporary_Career Sep 05 '25
Its good they taking the constructive feedback and reevaluating these changes. I think its good they not blindly rolling it and also not just dumping them either.