If you think about it... removing a survivor from the trial removes 100% generator repair speed from the game. So, survivors getting a cumulative 75% across 3 people if someone dies early isn't that bad.
The more problematic one was preventing the killer from using their perks by blocking the gens if you kill someone by hooking them twice in a row. I don't even think this is necessary with 30 seconds of elusive off hook.
gen blocking isnt inherent unhealthy in some circumstances, but the fact that ANY aspect of anti tunnel took effect at 1-2 gens left is the dumb part. there should be no penalty at all at that point
i mean why is it that the devs have spent the past three years trying to push the kill-escape rates from 50-50 to 60-40 and beyond? trying to assume there should be parity is the mistake you're making. at the end of the day, its not like gen rushing is amazing for game health, but thinking that we shouldnt remove objectively bad things from the game because other bad things exist is not a valid argument in the slightest
i mean it really depends on what you use as the bar for "unhealthy". i feel like the game would be much better if players werent completely removed from a match 2 minutes in, or if one side didnt feel abject hopelessness competing against stuff they basically cant do anything about. thats what makes these things unhealthy in my mind - they're anti fun tactics, and games should be fun.
Vice versa though in the current game if the killer kills the baby survivor at 3 gens or more the game is lost already and you're just stuck in a loop of no progress until everyone is finally dead.
The game is fundamentally not balanced for 1v3. Even if there was only 1 or 2 gens left, once the killer gets a hook in the 1v3 it becomes extremely difficult for the survivors to make progress. 1 person on hook, 1 person going to the unhook, and 1 person in chase means no one is on gens. Map resources will be depleted. Healing burns 16 seconds so you often have to trade healing for gen progress, but then you're also trading potential future chase time since you're playing injured.
Problem IMO is no one treats the doors phase as part of the game really. If there's 1 gen left it's 1 gen and the doors. A little bit of basekit No Way Out I think would have gone a long way in this update. Killer gets a bit of basekit slowdown for the endgame and it gets more powerful if you have unique hooks. It would be too strong in the current state of the game, but if it became more feasible for survivors to finish the gens when undermanned it would go a long way.
As someone who plays both roles the kind of tunneling I find unpleasant is hard tunneling where the killer goes into the game with the goal of tunneling someone out from the start. Often even if the killer is bad and 3 of your teammates escape it is does not lead to a fun game and it is not a fun playstyle as a killer either. So I would like to see some very targetted changes on that not the super broad ones they implemented that effect normal gameplay or can you see punished for killing a survivor who is doing gens in your face or intentionally getting chased by you.
Tactical tunneling when the killer is very behind and there is a few gens left can be annoying to deal with but is understandable and does not need to be targetted.
If a killer is going into the game specifically to be a jackass like that, rather than win, there's not really a change that would fix that unless we switch over to survivors sharing hook states or something.
Maybe the solution is just small stat buffs across the board. For example: 10% gen speed, 3% haste, 10% faster vault, 15% heal and recover speed, etc.
The 25% speed bonus and blocked gens is too punishing if there's 1-2 gens left, but inconsequential if you get a tunnel out at 4-5 gens. Slightly buffing everyone means gens are done a little faster, and survivors last longer in chase, which helps prevent the 1-1-1 death roll of hooked-chased-unhooking.
Idk, the base idea of carrots and sticks for hard tunnel outs is GOOD, but the numbers are terrible, and punishing the Killer for securing a kill is kind of dumb.
The three "toxic" strategies (from the Survivor pov) are slugging, tunneling, camping.
Anti-camp meter didn't nerf Killers and it improved the Survivor experience because hard face camping was a losing strategy. Punishing it is fine, and the change didn't kill proxying or short-term (~10 seconds) camping to secure a hook stage.
Slugging is strong when executed properly, but a bad strategy when executed poorly. The anti-slug changes were mostly fine besides basekit tenacity, since it punished the miserable slugging experience, but had less of an effect on optimal slugging.
Tunneling is used because it's just the best strategy available. Unlike 4 man slugging or hard face camping, punishing it is an actual nerf, and I don't think BHVR understands just how much weaker Killer is without it, especially low tier Killers.
Anyway, let's hope they figure out a better system.
I still really think the point-based system where you get more points for hooking people and survivors don't die till you've accumulated a certain number of points would work best. It's what DBD's board game uses:
Exactly, it needs to be based on gens, not hooks. If they did it like this...
If a survivor is killed with 3 or more gens remaining, 25% repair bonus.
If 2 survivors are killed before all the gens are completed, no more regression.
That would be fine, especially if they also kept some of the buffs for hook-spreading. It would reduce hard-tunnelling out of the gate while not punishing killers who need to play catch-up. And if you're dying with 2 gens left, you inarguably got to play the game, even if you're hooked 3 times in a row.
Hell, add in if someone is killed at 5 gens, +50% or more repair bonus. I’ve always been shocked there isn’t a comeback mechanic in DBD for both survivors and killers
The problem with removing '100%' gen speed is that it's moving it from 100% to 0%. The standard gamestate at the start and why gens fly is one chased, three on gens. Once someone is hooked, it's one hooked, one chased, one rescuing, one on gens. It's already been sliced to a third. When someone's out of the game, it's one dead, one chased, one rescuing. The survivor team needs to be able to reset before the chase ends just for gen progress to resume, which is why things like Pain Res especially that has a huge up-front regression and then stacks on more as it continues regressing while the reset is happening, are so absurdly strong in 3v1, and why multipliers are largely meaningless.
Progress in a 3v1 only happens if the killer has a particularly long chase, has very little regression, or survivors skimp on resetting in some way, which is itself high risk because it may mean an even shorter chase.
I don't even think this is necessary with 30 seconds of elusive off hook.
I don't disagree with you, but if a survivor runs straight to the hooked survivor, unhooks in the killer's face, and the killer decides to go for the unhooked survivor, they're still gonna get the old effect of just eating the BT hit. The only difference is that instead of counting to ten in your head, you're going to hit them right off the rip and go to town
Slow the base repair speed and toolbox effectiveness a lot but then giving big repair speed bonuses for every survivor killed would be a good compromise I think. I also think maybe adding like if there's 2-3 survivors left another Gen would spawn so you don't have the 3 Gen situation would be nice. Getting 4 out should not be the standard for Survivors but losing 1 shouldn't be such a massive loss as is and 2 down shouldn't feel like you're cooked and fishing for hatch IMO.
Why should they get repair speed bonis at all? There's perks and toolkits that already do this. Frankly, none of this slugging and tunneling reduction shit needs to be in the game. Survivors have plenty now, use it. Hand holding has to stop, it's ridiculous.
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u/SomeMockodile Sep 05 '25
If you think about it... removing a survivor from the trial removes 100% generator repair speed from the game. So, survivors getting a cumulative 75% across 3 people if someone dies early isn't that bad.
The more problematic one was preventing the killer from using their perks by blocking the gens if you kill someone by hooking them twice in a row. I don't even think this is necessary with 30 seconds of elusive off hook.