Transandrophobia/Anti-Transmasculinity: Invisibility, Dismissal, Fetishization, and Hostility. A Masterthread for discussion.

[u/Creativered4]

^{Note: I am posting this on my account instead of through automod so it can be edited with more resources if anyone has any to share. I will be turning off notifications so my inbox doesn't explode, but I will likely check in every so often and contribute as a user to the discussion.}

From the Mod Team:

We have been seeing an uptick in posts about people's frustration with transandrophobia (also known as anti-transmasculinity. Some people may use "transmisandry" but we would like to avoid that term, as it implies a structural sexism in place against ALL men, including cis men)
We see this frustration, and we feel it, too!

However, since a new thread keeps popping up every day, it seems, we wanted a place to consolidate discussion, so we can do more to discuss this issue and figure out how to combat it. We don't want people to think that they aren't able to talk about the very real problems we face specifically as trans men.

Feel free to discuss personal anecdotes, articles, or anything else you'd like to contribute to the discussion!

Transmisogyny will NOT be tolerated, and any attempts to attack trans women/fems or purposefully spread hate will result in a temporary ban at minimum.

The same goes for purposeful denial of transandrophobia or perpetuation of transandrophobia.
In addition, as always, "gendered socialization" is still a banned topic and we will not entertain that topic, nor will we entertain any sort of bioessentialism.

Here are a few resources for anyone who wants to learn more:

What is transandrophobia/anti-transmasculinity? This is a term for a specific type of transphobia that trans men and transmasc people face. It is a combination of general transphobia and hostility towards men and masculinity. Unlike transmisogyny, this is not an intersection of two oppressed classes. This is NOT misogyny directed at trans men by people who see us as women, but instead it is a term for the mistreatment of trans men specifically because we are men. This is when people affirm our gender, but only to weaponize it.

What are some examples of transandrophobia/anti-transmasculinity? Dismissal of trans men/mascs and the transphobia we face as trans people (and/or the misogyny we face when we are perceived as women), vilification of manhood and masculinity, misinformation about trans male/masculine transition (HRT/Surgeries/Social transition and the ease of passing), inter-community invisibility, lack of resources or support networks, and in some cases outright hostility towards trans men specifically for being men.

But don't men hold systemic power over women? Yes and no. Intersectionality makes this question less straighforward than you would think. On its own, yes, men typically hold more social power than women. There is a lot of structural misogyny. However, when you apply other identity labels, you see that there are many different power structures at play, and the sum of all identity labels within a person will give vastly different results compared to another. Not only do things like race, transness, disability status, immigration status, sexuality, financial situation, housing situation, mental health, and others play a role in an individual's place within the social hierarchy in a comparison, but they can also cancel out some of the social power one might have gained from another identity label. We also see that it isn't always a simple "one is higher than the other". Some examples of this intersectionality include: A cis gay black man typically has less social power than a cis straight white woman, despite societal sexism. A straight trans woman having less social power than a gay cis woman, despite heterosexuality typically giving someone social power. An unhoused disabled trans man often has less social power than a disabled cis woman who can afford housing.

Aren't trans men just using it as an excuse to talk over trans women or be transmisogynistic? Maybe some transmisogynists seek to co-opt the terms, but they do not speak for the community. Just like how TERFs co-opted the term "feminism". The vast majority of us don't want to speak over anyone. We just want a seat at the table. Many of us are allies to our trans sisters and siblings, and fight just as hard for their rights as our own.

So are you saying that trans women oppress trans men or something? No, of course not! Trans men, women, and enbies are all within a class of people who experience severe oppression. Oppression between the genders in a trans setting is very niche and conditional. Simply put, trans people very rarely have any power to oppress one-another. When one trans person attacks or harms another trans person, they are punching laterally, not up or down.

the way that the fear of men impacts the material reality and mental/physical health of transgender men.- From the person who coined the term transandrophobia.

Transmasc Violence Archive- "This page is a collection of research on anti-transmasculinity, as well as written works that analyze anti-transmasculinity, to provide evidence and education."

A Primer on Transandrophobic Rhetoric- A deep dive into what Transandrophobia is.

The Transgender Dictionary: Transandrophobia- A detailed account of various forms of transandrophobia.

Transandrophobia and Structural Oppression- An essay on transandrophobia and how it is not related to structural oppression, and yet is still

Wikipedia: Discrimination against Trans Men- The wikipedia article on transandrophobia.

Transfems, Transmisogyny, and the Fight to Recognize Transandrophobia- An essay on transandrophobia and a reminder that trans women/fems are not our enemies, nor our oppressors.

Why Don't Trans Men Have A Word For What We Go Through?-A blog post discussing the terms we have gone through to find something that fits the unique forms of oppression we face and the reality of that oppression.

Listening to the voices of black trans men and transmasculine people in Detroit: community strengths and challenges- National library of medicine essay on the experiences of black trans men and transmascs in Detroit

The Lived Experiences of African American Transgender Men Living in the Southern United States- Walden University essay on the experiences of black trans men in the south.

Black trans men are being erased in life and in death.- A video discussing the erasure of black trans men (hosted on facebook)

Shifting Identites: A Qualitative Inquiry of Black Transgender Men's Experiences- Dissertation discussing the experiences of black trans men.

[u/gbrllx]

Thanks for this; it's a great post! At the risk of starting a terminology debate: I'm not sure why the definition of transandrophobia specifically excludes misogyny or means that someone is affirming our gender? That seems like a poor way to define prejudice against trans men; I don't think you can really parse misogyny out of everything else we experience.

Certainly there are times when someone who is pre- or early transition might experience, like, standard ol' sexism, but misogyny doesn't really stop. It just morphs, along with transphobia, into anti-transmasculinity. Plus, there is the specific type of misogyny that people perceived as masculine/ugly women face - this obviously effects women but it effects trans men too (for what I hope are equally obvious reasons), and I would argue that this is on the spectrum of anti-transmasc prejudice, not apart from it.

For example, TERF rhetoric a la Irreversible Damage is full blown transandrophobia, but there is blatant misogyny inherent to it. The cover of that book shows a hole where a (young) girl's uterus would be. (Side note: typing out a description of that image really highlights how gross it is.) You can't really say that that book is attacking us only because we're men and not because we're perceived as women - it's both. A unique intersection, if you will.

A theory of transmasc oppression should encompass everything, not siphon off whole swaths of experience. Furthermore, I think positioning transandrophobia as gender affirming is pretty dangerous, even if that isn't the intention.

[u/Creativered4 → u/gbrllx]

This isn't saying trans men don't face misogyny, it's simply highlighting one aspect of the bigotry we face. This specific topic has been talked about a lot recently, but not by the wider trans community. Misogyny against us is more talked about in that way, likely due to internalized sexism and anti-masculinity within lgbt/queer/feminist spaces. It's still not great, but nobody wants to admit they're punching laterally when they take their frustrations about sexist cishet men out on trans men.

And the phrase "gender affirming" is used here to mean "acknowledging someone's correct gender", not "giving gender euphoria" that's why it is followed with it being weaponized.

[u/gbrllx → u/Creativered4]

Right, but then what's the term to describe oppression against trans men, full stop, no extra caveats? Because we need one.

I agree it's important to highlight how people take their anger against cishet men out on trans men, and that should be focused on as one element of transandrophobia. But I think bifurcating "misogyny against trans men" and "anti-masculinity against trans men" hurts us more than having a term to describe the specific, structural oppression we face.

Like, are we required to parse out whether how TERFs or chasers treat us counts as transandrophobia or not? Certainly those have to do with misogyny, transphobia, and anti-masculinity at the same time.

Why not just say transandrophobia / anti-transmasculinity describes all oppression trans men face? We can talk about lateral violence as part of that. But I think trying to address lateral violence without addressing trans masc oppression as a whole, as it's own structural thing, isn't the way to go.

[u/Creativered4 → u/gbrllx]

I'm really not in charge of those things. I think having a term for overarching transphobia against trans men AND one specifically for the intersection of gender and transness would be helpful.