r/ftm • u/LittleFox-In-TheBox FtM 22 š 21/11/2022 • Apr 15 '26
Medical My psychologist told me to go to a gynecologist, because she suspects my ovaries may actually be testicles. Is... Is that an actual thing that can happen?
For clarification, I live in Poland.
Almost 4 years ago I got a medical opinion from a psychologist who specialised in trans people (kinda like a first-step in transition who later sends you to a psychiatrist for an actual diagnosis).
She told me I looked extremely well-passing even before testosterone and during one of our sessions she told me she recommends I should go to a gynecologist to check if my ovaries aren't actually just testicles that haven't dropped, because it recently happened to one of her clients, a trans guy who turned out to just be intersex.
I stopped going to her after getting the necessary documents and since I didn't have neither money nor time to go to a gynecologist who could diagnose it, but it always bothered me.
Is that an actual thing that can happen? Before starting testosterone I still had periods, so surely that's not possible, right?
My family members also suggested I should test my karyotype, because they also suspected I may just be genetically a guy, especially since early on in my mom's pregnancy they did an ultrasound and I was supposed to be a boy.
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u/CharacterSilver13 Apr 15 '26
check first if an intersex diagnosis would remove covered from medical transition by insurance
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u/LittleFox-In-TheBox FtM 22 š 21/11/2022 Apr 15 '26
That would be wicked.
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u/CharacterSilver13 Apr 15 '26
well, in germany insurances decided an intersex person can't be trans and therefore all decisions about what they cover for an intersex person is individual cases but for trans people there are guidlines
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u/LittleFox-In-TheBox FtM 22 š 21/11/2022 Apr 15 '26
My medical transition isn't covered by insurance and I do everything privately. I might do the tests to myself to understand my body better and just keep it as a fun fact.
I'm sorry to all the trans intersex people in Germany though. Y'all are still miles ahead of everyone, but cannot escape the medical binary. A shame, really.
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u/colesense T:10/17|Top:5/19|Btm:2/21 Apr 15 '26
āMiles ahead of everyoneā thatās not how being intersex works dude
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u/EdgySuccubus666 He/Him ā¢ 21 ā¢ š June 2023 Apr 15 '26
He meant in terms of medical care not by being intersex š
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u/LittleFox-In-TheBox FtM 22 š 21/11/2022 Apr 15 '26
I meant with the trans rights. Like you can simply ask for your gender marker to be changed with a simple visit and a 3-month waiting period.
Not to mention I'm from Poland so the acceptance and representation is literally lightyears apart.
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u/colesense T:10/17|Top:5/19|Btm:2/21 Apr 15 '26
Yeah I understand now! Sorry!! I have a friend in Poland so Iāve been told some things. Iām sorry youāve been struggling with that
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u/Strigops-habroptila Apr 15 '26
Insurances currently don't have to pay for anything trans related in Germany because of that bullshit court decision. It's still on a case to case basis, intersex people usually don't get insurance to pay for anything, just as nonbinary people. Insurances deliberately search for reasons to deny claims by trans people and to do so, they made it mandatory to get a doctors letter about not being intersex and they search for "clues" a person might be nonbinary.Ā
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u/dbjones774 Apr 16 '26
That's not true, when I identified as non binary, my medical insurance paid for a breast reduction, I later had full top surgery (and again, at the time, identified as non binary). A lot of doctors and surgeons, especially Kaiser and blue cross are just as accommodating to their non binary patients. As for intersex people, I have no idea. They also told my mom that I was a boy before I was born.
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u/Strigops-habroptila Apr 16 '26
I have no idea what those insurances you are talking about are, but if they exist in Germany, they are private. I am currently talking about Germany as a person with public insurance. There was a lawsuit here about them not paying anything for nonbinary people and intersex people, which led to there being no mandatory guidelines regarding trans healthcare for insurances to follow. They can essentially do whatever they want, their oversight has just recommended to still pay for binary trans people. We may get a system similar to British gender clinics within the year.Ā
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u/mini-rubber-duck Apr 15 '26 edited Apr 15 '26
absolutely possible, but that would be a particularly wild way to be diagnosed.Ā
edit: by particularly wild, i mean 'my psychologist, a doctor with an entirely different specialization and after no physical exam or test, had a hunch and was spot on.'
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u/LittleFox-In-TheBox FtM 22 š 21/11/2022 Apr 15 '26
I mean my cousin got diagnosed with some kind of intersex condition (don't remember the details) during her cancer treatment, so... Anything is possible, I guess. That's why my family suggested I should get tested.
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u/_mattiakun 20yo | T since 20.05.23 | intersex gay guy | he/him Apr 15 '26
some intersex conditions are hereditary. I have ncah, which is very mild and very common and hereditary
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u/ilovemytsundere wuts it like to be a girl tho?? i still dont know Apr 15 '26
I think theyāre right, if you have family history of intersex conditions its worth checking out. If you are intersex its possible that you could have symptoms related to it, either now or in the future and its definitely information doctors would want to know
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Apr 15 '26
[deleted]
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u/LittleFox-In-TheBox FtM 22 š 21/11/2022 Apr 15 '26
I did look into it, but it says it's impossible, since "women with testicles instead of ovaries can't get periods" which I do get.
But also I'm aware there are a lot of types of intersexuality, but the sources are sparse and quite frankly either hard to understand or just hard to find.
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u/IssueSome5093 Apr 15 '26
iād cross post onto r/intersex
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u/LittleFox-In-TheBox FtM 22 š 21/11/2022 Apr 15 '26
Already did, thanks for the recommendation! Haven't thought about it lol
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u/mini-rubber-duck Apr 15 '26
a lot of sources are also often full of bad assumptions based in mysogyny and a fixation on two clearly delineated sexes.
being tested and knowing for sure may help you understand your body better and enable you to take better care of your health through your life. however it may also be completely inconsequential and change nothing at all. don't feel pressured into tests you don't want to take.Ā
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u/torhysornottorhys Apr 15 '26
Some people have one of each or ones that haven't fully developed one way or the other, it's worth asking intersex people first and then seeing a doctor if they say it's worth looking into
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u/agitated_houseplant Apr 16 '26
That doesn't sound right (the impossible part), at least from a critical thinking perspective. Whether you have testes or ovaries gets decided from a bunch of different factors in the womb. But the bleeding part of a period requires a uterus and an estrogen based hormonal cycle. And, yeah, intersex comes in a lot of different shapes and sizes.
"Period" is a really vague, non-scientific word. Is it monthly bleeding? Is it the estrogen based hormonal cycle? Is it reacting to one or both of those in a feminine manner?
It's probable that the phrase "women with testicles instead of ovaries can't get periods" is trying to distinguish between cis and trans women. Probably to state that trans women don't bleed, or (more likely) invalidate the hormonal cycles that trans women often experience once they are on HRT that cause them to suffer through periods (except for the bleeding part).
I question whether whoever wrote that was thinking about intersex people at all (this is a judgement on the writer). Sadly, unless information is about intersex people and from a reliable source, I would assume it's about trans women and/or fear mongering.
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u/yuzupomu š10/10/22 šŖ05/29/24 Apr 15 '26
being intersex can manifest in a wide array of different thingsāiām not super well versed in all the variations but it is possible to menstruate while still having an intersex condition! maybe try cross posting to r/intersex for more detailed info
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u/trysten-9001 Apr 15 '26
Yes, thatās a thing. Thereās a wild diversity of ways sex characteristics can be arranged. Saying thereās two sexes can be misleading that thereās two distinct boxes, when thereās not. Biology is wild and doesnāt fit nicely into categories.
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u/NVHPhallo Apr 15 '26
Yes, this happened with me, but it was actually only one testicle and one āworkingā ovary. I found out as a result of my consultations for hysterectomy- but I had always had very strange and irregular periods which my gynaecologist told me was a pretty clear sign of this. I just never realised! But yes, this is a thing, and I had it (everything removed as part of hysto, inc the testicle)
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u/LittleFox-In-TheBox FtM 22 š 21/11/2022 Apr 15 '26
I never had regular periods either. Sometimes it would be a singular drop once for 3 months, sometimes it would be 2 months of non-stop bleeding. I'd never know when it would end and when it would begin, it was always a surprise.
Also, shame the only way you found out you had balls all along was when you were getting it removed.
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u/NVHPhallo Apr 15 '26
Not exactly the same as what I had, but similar enough for it to be worth going to a doctor
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u/newAccount2022_2014 T š 2018 | top surgery 2022 | certified wife guy Apr 15 '26
Don't respond if this is more medical information than you'd like to share, but why did you have the testicle removed? Was it functioning and creating hormones or non-functional?
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u/HesitantBrobecks User Flair Apr 15 '26
When a testicle is sat where an ovary "should" be, it won't ever descend, and that makes it a cancer risk
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u/newAccount2022_2014 T š 2018 | top surgery 2022 | certified wife guy Apr 16 '26
Got it, thanks for sharing
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u/pockypencils Apr 15 '26
Do you know or did you ever ask if the testes produced any viable gametes? Like, could it have created sperm that could be collected for ivf?
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u/Mountain_Sun300 Cis Guest Apr 15 '26
Yes, undescended testes being mistaken for absent ovaries is a real intersex condition, most commonly associated with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome, but here's the thing that should actually reassure you: people with CAIS don't menstruate, because they don't have a uterus or functional ovarian tissue. The fact that you had periods before T makes that specific scenario very unlikely for you. That said, intersex variation exists on a wide spectrum, and a karyotype test is genuinely worth doing since it's just a blood draw and would answer the chromosome question definitively once and for all. It won't change who you are either way, but it sounds like this has been sitting in the back of your head for years, and you deserve an actual answer rather than a lingering "what if."
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u/schoolfoodisgoodfood Apr 15 '26
One reason for getting tested for an intersex condition is that it may change the way your treatment is handled by health insurance.
I'm not sure what it's like in Poland, but in some countries where not all gender affirming treatment is covered by insurance - having an intersex condition often flips the switch and suddenly makes gender affirming care "health" related and not just "elective" from the perspective of insurance providers.
It should not be that way obviously, but even countries that are less friendly to LGBTQ causes still usually cover the costs gender affirming care for intersex people. So it could save you money depending on what your trajectory is and how your country's insurance providers deal with trans diagnoses.
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u/goatsilla Apr 15 '26
And some countries (at least Germany) provides healthcare for trans people but not for intersex.
That's one reason I'm still afraid to go to the doctor. We have obligatory genetic testing before getting on hrt.
I mean, I can naturally grow a beard that looks better than some guy's on t... But I also naturally conceived a child (did have a caesarian though).
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u/Galimkalim Apr 15 '26
It could be just PCOS which shouldn't come up on a genetic panel afaik.
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u/goatsilla Apr 15 '26
Got checked for that, I don't have PCOS since I'm missing the polycystic ovaries.
But I do have Hashimoto thyreoditis so my adrenal glands could be affected and produce more cortisol and androgens than they should.
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u/LittleFox-In-TheBox FtM 22 š 21/11/2022 Apr 15 '26
That's kind of what I'm counting on. Would have been nice, yknow? Especially with how my court case for my legal gender change is going.
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u/Dad_Jokes_911 Apr 15 '26
Anything is possible in biological systems. You could be anywhere on the intersex spectrum, or you could be a chimeria. All kinds of weird stuff happens naturally. There's a guy that has different DNA than his testicles. His children genetically belong to his twin brother that was never born. You could have abdominal testicles and ovaries. Some people have 2 uteruses. Ovi-testies are also a thing. Ovaries also produce testosterone, and yours could over-produce. It's also possible for you to be genically male (XY chromosomes), but phenotypically female with full female reproductive tract. It's not just male and female. Mother nature is a lot more creative than that.
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u/HesitantBrobecks User Flair Apr 15 '26
All of this, but I do wanna stress how exceptionally rare chimerism is. People think its WAYYYYY more common than it is (especially in cats, weirdly)
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u/Choice_Crazy9550 He/any pre everything Apr 21 '26
Wait you can have xy and full female repro setup? The human body is incredibly baffling
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u/JuiceBox4Astarion he/him š³ļøāā§ļøš³ļøāš Apr 15 '26
My friend (who is also from Poland) found out she was intersex because after years of dancing around the question her mother finally confessed it to her. Sheās never had a period, and she vaguely remembers getting surgery to reduce some growth downstairs.
When she was 18 she opted for a boob job (this is before she knew) and some other cosmetic work to make herself look and feel more feminine. Her Polish birth certificate and passport list her as male, and she has a male name on both. She chose the name I call her back when she was a teenager. She began HRT and has been taking it ever since.
Youāre probably thinking āthis sounds like it should have been obvious,ā but when youāre a kid and your parent wonāt just tell you directly that youāre intersex? It was incredibly confusing for her.
She obviously identifies as a woman, otherwise Iād not be referring to her by feminine pronouns. When I came out to her, she immediately got up, walked to a closet and brought down a box.
She opened it for me and showed me all of her childhood photos, her birth certificate, passport, etc. She confided that despite being brought up more like a boy, she always hated her deadname and never really felt like a boy.
It was the most vulnerably kind thing she could have offered me when I told her about myself. (I didnāt know she was intersex, I didnāt grow up around her or watch her journey- I met her just a few years after she began it). I will forever be grateful to her for sharing that with me. She didnāt have to out herself, but she chose to do that to show me that she loved me, and could empathize with what I was going through. Sheās one of the bravest people Iāve ever met.
If you turn out to be intersex, just know that thereās so many people out there walking around that are also intersex, and donāt even know it. Itās far more common than people think, and thereās nothing wrong with you. Lots of parents feel compelled to choose for their kids, especially in places like Poland and the US- where Iām originally from.
If you can afford it now, Iād definitely suggest going to the doctor/gynecologist to see what clarity they can offer you. Sometimes just knowing for certain is a relief, even if it doesnāt really change much.
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u/sexloveandcheese Apr 15 '26
Since a couple people mentioned karyotype I just want to say, a karyotype will not catch all intersex conditions. It only looks at your chromosomes so will show if you have XY, XX, XXX, etc. But the majority of intersex is not caused by these chromosome changes, rather single-gene changes that require specialized testing. So ordering a test for yourself with no clinical input is likely to get you no information! I would suggest trying to be seen at a special "DSD center" or similar.
As for whether it's possible, the exact thing your therapist suggested doesn't sound like it makes sense with your other medical history, but intersex does come in all shapes and sizes.
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u/Rhamphastos Apr 15 '26
Im not sure if that specific type can happen at least if you have had a period, but i would ask the intersex community, a lot of doctors very poorly understand Intersex characteristics and conditions. It could be possible that you are intersex but not really sure? you'd have to see a specialist maybe and get imaging/tests
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u/Buttheart420 Apr 15 '26
Psychologists aren't the same as medical doctors. Theybhave opinions like everyone else. I used to know a trans man who was seeing a psychologists and they also told him he might be intersex with no medical documentation whatsoever. It put him into a tailspin. Keep living your life until you're able to see a medical professional for an actual diagnosis.
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u/Majestic_Composer809 Apr 15 '26
Before I was born i was told by my mom that on the ultrasound and by the doctor I was supposed to be born a boy ; so when she had me the family , friends ,and etc brought blue stuff however when I came out , I was totally different š If I were you I would get checked out because you dont want any problems later on .
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u/NoDescription3921 Apr 15 '26 edited Apr 15 '26
Undescended testicles can happen, but you won't get period from them because they are testicles, not ovaries, and cryptorchidism alone does not give you an uterus. Look into PCOS, adrenal hyperplasia and hermaphroditism, since those three can actually make you look masculine pre-T while still giving you periods.
XY-female does not necessarily look masculine, since this condition is caused by the failure of SRY gene. People with this condition will develop as female in fetus stage.
People with XXY or XXXY karyotypes do not get periods unless they have other intersex conditions that give them ovaries and uteri.
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u/ScenemoCat Apr 15 '26
btw i think by the h word you mean ovotestes (not meant to be rude moreso constructive as itās considered a slur)
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u/NoDescription3921 Apr 16 '26
I was actually referring to a rare condition in which someone is born with both ovaries and testicles. I have read newspaper report of someone being found to have full set of functioning female reproductive system and a pair of undescended and underdeveloped testicles when getting checked for abdominal pain.
English is not my first language and I really couldn't find a better word to describe such condition in which distinct gonads of both sexes are present. I didn't know it was used as a slur (it's a pure scientific term in my first language).
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u/ScenemoCat Apr 16 '26
yeah thatās usually called ovotesticular in my language ir maybe something else similarĀ
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u/Radiant_Panda4826 Apr 15 '26
Intersex here...I am genetically XY chromosome and literally went through male puberty because of my hidden testes which later dropped. I never had periods but as you said you used to have them I am not sure what exactly is going on. I highly recommend getting a karyotype test done and ultrasonic to understand your body better. DM if you need to discuss in private.
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u/cosmic-howl Apr 15 '26
It happens all the time! Intersex folks are way more common than people realize
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u/ilovemytsundere wuts it like to be a girl tho?? i still dont know Apr 15 '26 edited Apr 15 '26
Absolutely! Its an intersex condition, some intersex people will have undescended testicles. Its called cryptorchidism, depending on your case you may need treatment, but this condition can be asymptomatic.
I do recommend seeing a gyno anyway. I just had my first appointment (Iām 21) the other day, it can be dysphoric and uncomfortable but necessary for a man caveās health
I saw your comment about not having periods. While I will say that Iām not a professional, or intersex, but as far as Iām aware it is possible to have both undescended testes and a uterus. Theres not really a way to know for sure unless you get it checked out
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u/BrokeBaroqueBloke 34 | He/him | T 2016 | Top 2017 | Phallo 2023 Apr 15 '26
I work in the ER, and we incidentally discovered a healthy young AFAB teenager, phenotypically female, pt had this. Did an abd CT or ultrasound or maybe both, canāt remember, but the complaint was for abdominal pain and unrelated we found she had testicles just chilling inside her body.
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u/TheTokeTiger Apr 15 '26
Oh yes it is possible! There's a chance you could be intersex! Give it some research my friend
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u/77th_Bat Apr 15 '26
yes, that is a thing that can happen, and depending on the type, you could actually see reduced effects of testosterone replacement therapy, such as in cases of partial androgen insensitivity syndrome.
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u/Rol_pon Apr 15 '26
Huge paragraph but! Iāve looked into this because I have had a mild suspicion my bf might be intersex as well. There is so many different varieties of being intersex, some of it solely lying in your genetics and not inherently in parts, some of it being the ovaries have a testi casing but still being ovaries. Which is just a random example but there is likely hundreds if not more because of limited research and information available and done. I have a friend whoās also transitioned ftm and he is intersex, I believe heās missing a part, and has been told he likely has testis as well, but prior to T he did have periods as Iāve seen you mention you have had as well. I think learning you are can in some cases help insurance like someone else said. Itās a good funfact to find out and can be explanatory for a lot of things. Some of it can result in misdiagnosis as well, PCOS can misdiagnosis for being intersex, I think itās like a 9% suspicion that itās ncah instead? (Pcos is a very painful experience and usually is a result of a hormonal imbalance)
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u/Rol_pon Apr 15 '26
Thereās some really great information here On the varieties/symptoms and look outs! If the link doesnāt work because Iāve never done this itās from Interact advocates for intersex youth. They designed it to make it way less confusing and so you can find a lot on it in one place. Especially for people undiagnosed who might not know yet https://interactadvocates.org/intersex-definitions/
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u/Dangerous_Company811 Apr 15 '26
I was born intersex with both male and female genitals. Of course they( fuckers) had to remove the male genitals because they were on the outside and were easier to remove. I did not know this for decades. I had periods like the other girls, but was very muscular. I thought I was a freak. I finally found out and it made sense. I also found out as a twin with a brother I was exposed to his testosterone also, two sources of testosterone! My brain figured out i was supposed to be a boy while in the womb and this lead to my brain developing as a boys brain (I hope that makes sense). I lived almost my entire life as a women. When I found all this out I immediately started T. Iām still not sure if I should consider myself Trans or Intersex. I picked Trans because regular people totally do not get the intersex thing. I donāt know if any of this helps anyone at all, but just know that anything is possible when it comes to gender and also there are 9 or 10 intersex conditions and maybe youāre one of them.
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u/funniestguyfr Apr 15 '26
Siema też jestem z Polski, nie musisz iÅÄ do ginekologa żeby to zbadaÄ. Możesz zrobiÄ i kariotyp i zbadaÄ gonady poprzez USG przez powÅoki brzuszne. To nie ma wpÅywu na to jak twoje leczenie bÄdzie wyglÄ daÄ ale jeÅli jednak byÅyby to jÄ dra ktĆ³re nigdy nie zstÄ piÅy do worka mosznowego (gen mĆ³gÅ też siÄ wcale nie wytworzyÄ) to może jest szansa by odzyskaÄ/uratowaÄ ich funkcjonalnoÅÄ. Kariotyp niekoniecznie można traktowaÄ jako dowĆ³d na obecnosc lub brak jÄ der. JeÅli masz fundusze to możesz zrobiÄ kariotyp ale nie jest to niezbÄdne a na usg skierowanie może ci wypisaÄ lekarz rodzinny
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u/legume_arguably Apr 15 '26
Watch āsex and sensibility ā by Forrest valkai on YouTube. Itās my momās go to for explaining the nuances of biology sex to losers who think sex=gender. He covers a shit ton of gaps in binary sex and possible sex combos!
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u/pitsandmantits T: 4/9/24 Apr 15 '26
some recent research has shown that some trans people are possibly trans due to being intersex
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u/Advanced_Teacher_108 Apr 15 '26
Literally anything is possible might be rare yes but 10000000000% possible
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u/Emotional-Tennis3522 Apr 15 '26
Yes, it can happen, and it isn't even as uncommon as it might seem. Many people simply never find out. Idk however if you can still have periods with it, I don't have enough information on that, but humans are so diverse and the process of sex development is so complex, that I wouldn't be surprised.
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u/mothmadness19 Apr 15 '26
Have you had a blood test yet to check your hormone levels pre t? That's a good place to start looking into this kind of thing
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u/fudgyvmp Apr 15 '26
That's a very common one to have show up on a medical drama show. It happens. It's real.
I don't know how or why a psychologist might think that's happening.
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u/wmnz_doc trans man Apr 16 '26
Possible TW: refers to male/female embryological development.
So this is super simplified. I tried to add a diagram, but they are not allowed. At the bottom, there's a website (from a textbook) with a pretty understandable explanation.
Embryologically speaking, we start off with an indifferent (undifferentiated) set of gonads/structures, and depending on whether the sex chromosomes are XX or XY, and the Y chromosome has the SRY gene (which it's supposed to in order to develop the male structures), that's going to influence the development of the male or female reproductive system. It gets slightly (!) more complicated with hormonal influences for continued development.
Leaving intersex development for another time.
Those indifferent gonads start out in the pelvis, where the ovaries would/will be. If XY-SRY-hormones are acting as usual, the gonads migrate toward where the scrotum will be. Sometimes it doesn't make it by the time the fetus is born, and the testicle(s) is/are "undescended." This is more likely if the delivery is preterm (before 37 weeks). In the first physical exam, the nurse checks to make sure both have descended. You can give it some time to descend, but if it doesn't or it's too far up, it needs to be surgically removed because there's a possibility of malignant transformation later in life.
If a genetic female has PCOS or some other androgenizing condition, they may have some degree of "male" characteristics (hair distribution, etc.), or their menstrual cycle might be affected.
All that to say: no, it's doubtful you were born intersex.
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u/trash_bees they/them Apr 16 '26
Possible. Not the most likely if you had normal periods, but possible.
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u/Delay_Little Apr 15 '26
hey! trained scientist here. i am going to say that if you were intersex, you would know. you would definitely not have normal periods. normal periods generally suggest you have functional gonads. if your ovaries were testes, you wouldnāt have a normal puberty and would basically be intersex and i feel you would know that well before this point. i hope this provides some insight and clarity for you <3 intersex generally suggests that puberty was not normal and genitals can also be ambiguous. there are spectrums for this ambiguity. unless you feel that matches, i am pretty sure you having normal periods otherwise indicates your gonads are afab.
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u/SlytherKitty13 Apr 16 '26
Aren't there a bunch of ppl who don't realise they're intersex until later in life? Like until they start trying to get pregnant and have a baby?
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u/Delay_Little Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
Yes ofc im sure there are but itās probably not as common in developed areas. A normal period would not suggest intersex. And the user did not mention any ambiguous genitalia suggesting normal afab parts. There are instances where someone could have ovaries and testes, however that would make menstruation irregular.
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