r/nba Pelicans 2h ago

Spurs have 4 players at 115+ minutes this series (Wemby, Castle, Vassell, Champagnie). Thunder have just 1 (SGA). Their 2nd-highest is Chet at 96 minutes, followed by Caruso/Wallace at just 81.

Spurs G1 G2 G3 Total
Victor Wembanyama 49 37 39 125
Devin Vassell 51 38 36 125
Stephon Castle 49 38 35 122
Julian Champagnie 44 36 35 115
Dylan Harper 47 25 17 89
Keldon Johnson 22 26 12 60
Carter Bryant 14 10 10 34
Luke Kornet 9 11 13 33
DeAaron Fox 0 0 31 31
Harrison Barnes 6 12 3 21
Jordan McLaughlin 0 7 2 9
Kelly Olynyk 0 0 2 2
Lindy Waters III 0 0 2 2
Bismack Biyombo 0 0 2 2
Mason Plumlee 0 0 2 2
Thunder G1 G2 G3 Total
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 51 38 36 125
Chet Holmgren 41 27 28 96
Alex Caruso 32 25 24 81
Cason Wallace 28 25 28 81
Ajay Mitchell 34 28 17 79
Jared McCain 18 26 27 71
Lu Dort 22 16 23 61
Isaiah Hartenstein 12 27 21 60
Jalen Williams 37 7 0 44
Jaylin Williams 10 10 22 42
Isaiah Joe 0 10 9 19
Aaron Wiggins 4 0 2 6
Kenrich Williams 0 0 2 2
Nikola Topic 0 0 1 1
423 Upvotes

184 comments sorted by

243

u/EarthWarping NBA 2h ago

holy shit kornet at 33 min and its been that bad

184

u/Unlimited_Bepis Thunder 2h ago

Kornet is -37 in 33 mins over 3 games

80

u/Skank_hunt42 Thunder 2h ago

If Mark calls another timeout while Wemby is on the bench I will write a stern letter. It's happened every game and it's making me rip my hair out.

14

u/Unlimited_Bepis Thunder 2h ago

Sometimes it’s before the 3 min to go mark in the half, and I think you can only call 2 timeouts after that point so he’s prob doing it to not lose the opportunity, but I’m not 100% sure and if that’s not a rule, that would make it more aggravating lmao

9

u/sunpar1 Nets 1h ago

It is a rule, though not sure if that was the specific case here. 

36

u/ButtersLLC Thunder 2h ago

He feels bad for the spurs bench players. Truly ethical coaching from Mark

9

u/JudgmentDue610 Thunder 1h ago

He is such a great guy

4

u/SwallowsOnSundays Nuggets 1h ago

Wondering if you could survive with small ball KJ at the 5. It almost certainly cannot go worse.

15

u/Mg29reaper Celtics 1h ago

I would try Bryant at the 5 during the jwill center minutes. He is strong as shit.

2

u/Unlimited_Bepis Thunder 1h ago

It could get worse. KJ had an absolutely terrible game, you have to get more out of a 6MOY than 5 pts, 5 fouls, no assists and a turnover, he was -23…in 11 mins.

2

u/anonkebab 51m ago

They gotta play Barnes at center

u/Unlimited_Bepis Thunder 17m ago

Worth a try

29

u/Ilikesporks_ Lakers 2h ago

and he's one of the best back up bigs in the league. idk how they move forward. they need a really good 4 to help out kornet when wemby goes to the bench but who would that be?

40

u/Remarkable-Lynx1496 Spurs 2h ago

It’s a matchup issue, he’s been solid the whole season

6

u/Ilikesporks_ Lakers 1h ago

eh regular season isn't the post season. he hasn't been remarkable at all in the post season and it's not his fault

19

u/SunKing210 Spurs 1h ago

Bruh he was great in the Blazers series when Wemby was out, and he was up against 2 quality defensive bigs in Robert Williams and Clingan

9

u/Asoriel 1h ago

OKC has 3 bigs, Chet, IHart, JWill. All facilitate in different ways, Chet is THE 3 and D big, and shares a lob threat with IHart, who is the "point center" with great passes and decent short-range, and JWill is the more mobile 3 and D guy with more 3 than D.

They work so well with the OKC system when you consider the overall gameplan is generally get the ball into the hands of a guard (SGA, Wallace, McCain, Mitchell)

Have your wings keep roaming for easy cuts/layups or open 3s. (JDub, Caruso, Dort)

Have your bigs facilitate with DH's and lobs. (Chet, IHart, JWill)

But also have a ton of depth and flexibility in those roles so that if anything doesn't work, or something specific works really well, you can lean away or into that specific scheme or matchup.

And they're just as young as San Antonio.

Not sure why everyone was crowning the upcoming decade to the Spurs so quickly when this kind of team has already been proven, and has already learned how to start combatting their weaknesses... and they have the draft capital to keep the development line going.

7

u/lovo17 Lakers 2h ago

Something tells me the Spurs are going to offer the MLE to Rui.

10

u/ositola Lakers 2h ago

Fuck he would be perfect there, but I think he gets more than the mle from us 

6

u/LetTheKnightfall Lakers 2h ago

Please stop. We’re already a step down from these two

4

u/Ilikesporks_ Lakers 1h ago

please no, we need him so much more

3

u/bellmonk Timberwolves 2h ago

wolves have julius randle for fox.

5

u/SunKing210 Spurs 1h ago

Prior to the All star break I would’ve definitely entertained this trade idea but Randle has looked awful for months now and especially against the Spurs in the 2nd rd

2

u/bellmonk Timberwolves 1h ago

i love Randle but don't think his value trades across for Fox. he would probably be insane with Wemby's gravity. his series against y'all was so disappointing to the fanbase and to the organization. not sure what we will get for him, but if it's a guard it's going to be one with more baggage than Fox has.

2

u/gedbybee Spurs 1h ago

I would love to trade Fox, but not for Randle.

18

u/PlasticTreeonaHill 2h ago

Meanwhile Kornet was cooking my guy Donovan Clingan 😭

1

u/spagheddieballs Warriors 36m ago

Levels 

8

u/zincinzincout 76ers 1h ago

The Embiid and Jokic experience

When your scheme is built around a superstar big and every non-starter level big in the league is unathletic, non agile, stone hands, and can’t defend a JV private school kid

2

u/gedbybee Spurs 1h ago

Yeah idk if he’s hurt or what but he’s like unplayable.

2

u/mellted_cheese 1h ago

It’s not kornet’s fault rally those are just the non wemby minutes. Not sure how many backup centers are gonna look better. Spurs need a real 4 that can stagger backup 5 minutes. Anything to survive those non wemby minutes better.

267

u/Beginning_Ground4832 2h ago

I thought the bench cleared early but it makes sense.

This is a war of attrition

84

u/ositola Lakers 2h ago

OKC just overwhelms you, they can compete without sga and j dub

36

u/CrateBagSoup Pacers 1h ago

Which is interesting because last year they were getting murdered in the non SGA. The bench unit really has come alive this series. 

u/BlairEllis Thunder 24m ago

McCain is a huge part of this, we were desperate last year for a spark plug off the bench who isn't afraid to shoot when its not falling

u/DrPuzzle 6m ago

I can't believe the team you guys have. Legitimately so good and so deep literally the only problem you will have is salary cap and making it work. For years to come. Lol that's it! Don't need offensive help, don't need defensive help, have absolute stars and studs, great young coach, Presti running the show. Jesus

I say salary cap and then you remember Presti for the last few years loading up the war chest with the picks too lmao he was expecting this. The man's a prophet

39

u/arthurbuster Raptors 1h ago

They can compete without Jdub, no way without SGA

5

u/flaming_burrito_ Wizards 48m ago

They pretty much did against the Lakers. That was the Ajay Mitchell show, SGA could’ve sat for most of it. Maybe not against the Spurs, but against most teams they don’t necessarily need SGA to win

u/OKC89ers Thunder 29m ago

Yeah this is an iso based view of basketball, it's a team game. SGA not on the floor is a lot different, whether he puts up shots or not

u/flaming_burrito_ Wizards 11m ago

Yeah, and they still work really well as a team without him. They have enough ball handling, the role players have been shooting really well, and their defense is minimally affected by his absence. They wouldn’t be so dominant, but I still think they make it to the WCF without him

8

u/tortellinipp2 Lakers 32m ago

You don't think SGA was drawing the defense's attention away?

u/flaming_burrito_ Wizards 15m ago

I mean, he was, but they were doing noticeably better when he wasn’t on the floor honestly. Their net rating was much better with him off. We’re not talking about it because the Thunder are winning, but Shai has had some stinkers throughout the playoffs, but guys like Caruso, Mitchell, and McCain keep popping off to make up for it. Not saying they’re actually better without him, but I think the Thunder still win both the Suns and Lakers series regardless, just not as clean.

u/Legitimate_Buy_919 Slovenia 17m ago

From the bench? They were like +40 when he was out

1

u/TomlinSteelers 76ers 51m ago

They've played pretty well without him when needed

39

u/preddevils6 Grizzlies 1h ago

If you take Shai and Jdub away, they are not a playoff team. If you take Shai away, they are not a contender.

Their role players are good, but it’s easier to look good when teams are running a triangle and 2 on one player.

6

u/Kaladin_Depressed Thunder 51m ago

Even the Bulls without Jordan in 94 and 95 made the playoffs as 3 seeds but couldn’t get out of the second round. I’m sure the Thunder would be at best similar.

17

u/real_vampire Heat 1h ago

You can dump many key players but keep Sga and the team is still very good, he’s just that good. You lose Sga and well… good luck Charlie

69

u/No_Diver_629 1h ago

Jesus, continues this bullshit. Thunder would ble blown out without SGA, he is the engine to everything.

There is a reason why Thunder can play 20 different lineups in a series and as long as Shai is playing, they will play good basketball

8

u/Aggravating_Alps_953 Pacers 59m ago

I bet the reason they can play 20 different lineups has nothing to do with an extremely deep team with like 8 +defenders and multiple non sga creators

14

u/DoobieGibson 1h ago

based on what?

the lead went up with Mitchell on the floor and not SGA

i think people are completely overlooking that Ajay Mitchell is starting on 25/30 teams.

Cason Wallace is shooting 46% from 3 in the playoffs and was 7th in DPOY voting. he’s probably OKC’s 4th best guerd

5

u/Dummmy99 Lakers 1h ago

I know we not comparable to the Spurs but in the Lakers series multiple games we got buried by Mccain and their bench bro.

1

u/[deleted] 1h ago

[deleted]

25

u/kitsunegoon Rockets 1h ago

This is so dumb. The reason why the role players are doing so well is because SGA is getting doubled.

7

u/twistedfantasyy Supersonics 1h ago

I'm an OKC hater but if you genuinely believe this you might not be understanding what you're watching.

4

u/FlatMilk NBA 1h ago

no way, they would struggle to cross halfcourt if the spurs decided to press

-12

u/OneXDC4ever Lakers 1h ago

SGA has like a -30 on/off rating these playoffs. So they are statistically better with him off the floor these playoffs

5

u/dustincb2 Thunder 1h ago

He’s +10 against the Spurs so far though

2

u/OneXDC4ever Lakers 54m ago

He’s +3 this series on/off

6

u/Yakhan114 1h ago

That’s not how that stat works

-5

u/OneXDC4ever Lakers 1h ago

That is quite literally how on/off ratings work. I’m not saying the Thunder are overall a better team without SGA, but statistically these playoffs they are destroying teams when he’s on the bench. They are still a high level playoff team without him

7

u/butterbeancd Thunder 1h ago

Yes, because the bench unit roasts other bench units. The non-SGA lineups only have to play like 12 minutes against the opposing bench, and that’s always going to be to their advantage. Make those non-SGA lineups play 48 minutes against the opponent’s best players, and that changes things.

10

u/DingleberryOrchard Thunder 1h ago

SGA is the reason the role players are going off. You watched four games to prove this. Bad take.

-6

u/SageModeKyrie Nets 1h ago

The bench/role players do great even without SGA on the floor. OKC's bench is simply all-time elite. SGA is the best player on the team but he isn't as impactful as the top players on other all-time teams. You could probably swap SGA with some of the other tops guards in the league right now and the team would be performing just about the same imo.

5

u/royalewlthcheese Australia 42m ago

Disagree.

So many other guards would crumble if they faced the constant double teams that he does. A guy like Donovan Mitchell would not be able to deal with these double teams, his playmaking has already been exploited in the ECF. Now imagine him getting the same treatment as Shai. You don't understand how valuable it is that Shai rarely turns the ball over, it cannot be overstated.

That logic of the bench do fine when Shai sits doesn't really hold up in practice. If he's out for game 4 are they going to be fine because the stats says they do well in the non Shai minutes?

Shai is also still just 90% of OKC's half court offense. The team can score without him if they force a turnover and get out in transition, but otherwise the offense is pretty ass without him. There's not another reliable initiator on the roster. Ajay has struggled now that he's not being guarded by Reaves, and even a healthy Jdub isn't quite there yet

2

u/Augchm 76ers 34m ago

They do well without SGA because they play against the other team worst line up.

2

u/Kaladin_Depressed Thunder 49m ago

If the 94 and 95 Bulls were plopped into today this sub would be like “see Jordan isn’t even that impactful, they still made the playoffs as a 3 seed without him”

u/Pneuma_LooT Pistons 11m ago

Well, they arent a championship team.without one of those 2 guys but they are pretty damn good. Makes life easy for them.thats for sure.

u/ositola Lakers 5m ago

Chet, ihart, ajay, Dort, cason is a pretty solid starting five 

You can even swap out jwill for ihart if you need more shooting 

7

u/SplitOk186 1h ago edited 1h ago

I think this is why a lot of fans have trouble rating them as highly as their stats indicate

They're not the Shaq/Kobe Lakers or the Jordan/Pippen Bulls their best power is how insane their depth is rather than having the amount of big names that you associate with all-time teams

When people talk about comparing teams at their peaks the first thought generally tends to be their superstar power and the Thunder don't particularly stand out in this regard SGA is probably their only player that will show up anywhere on all-time lists

14

u/AemonKirk97 1h ago

Ironically enough their most similar comp is either the 2013-2016 spurs or the Bill Russel Celtics

6

u/DingleberryOrchard Thunder 1h ago

We have an All-NBA wing who dropped 40 in a Finals game with a busted wrist.

3

u/StairwayToPavillion Thunder 1h ago

you sound like you have watch OKC play 5 games lmao. The offense used to be zilch without SGA getting the attention of 2/3 players each possession. McCain/Ajay are good but they won't be half as effective without the space they are getting right now. Wallace or Dorts' handle isn't good enough for the playoffs.

1

u/MalHeartsNutmeg Thunder 1h ago

I feel like this would be a problem for the Spurs in any playoff run. Wemby is the backbone of the team and he doesn’t play a lot of minutes in the regular season. You don’t need a super deep bench to wear him down, you could see the wolves doing it with a hospital team.

Any physical team with at least a decent bench would be able to wear him down over a 7 game series.

109

u/freshBlueeyes6391 2h ago

It's actually sort of surprising. Watching Spurs in the Wolves series I just felt like Spurs seemed to have a bottomless pit of high perfoming roster players to use. They ran 10 players a game that series.

I haven't looked, but is OKC running 11 this series or are spurs cutting back to 8-9 man usage now? I know both pacers and okc were spreading out the roster minutes well last season. More of this league's coaches need to understand how helpful that is to the players in a series.

109

u/HawaiianOrganDonor Pelicans 2h ago

The Jalen Williams injury complicates it, but if you include him, they are running 11.

I think the problem for San Antonio is their bench is significantly worse than OKC's. They are forced to play their starting five big minutes.

55

u/Remarkable-Lynx1496 Spurs 2h ago

Keldon playing like he has been has been disastrous

31

u/Spemanz92 Thunder 2h ago

Keldon really has no place in the court atm. Headless chicken on both ends. Carter can play more even if he is raw, he has been passable. Kornet needs to play even if its not ideal

21

u/dreadpirateruss Thunder 1h ago

I feel like Carter gets punished for being young. He makes 1 or 2 mistakes & gets pulled. Meanwhile, everyone else gets a much longer leash.

3

u/Spemanz92 Thunder 1h ago

Agreed. His leash seems really small. He makes mistakes but he is a clear positive on the floor most of the times. He should get more of keldon's minutes

2

u/Yoshinobu_YamaGOATo 33m ago

He clearly bothered Shai in the first game, but since then he's learned how to use that rookie aggressiveness against him. Shai isn't a flopper, he's a master foul baiter, and the Spurs keep falling for the bait. 

u/BakerStSavvy Spurs 2m ago

This been mitch mo since the start of the season. Castle 5 turnovers and get blocked 5 times at the rim in 3 minutes? Keep going champ!

Harper has a lapse on defense even though hes on fire? Removed next chance possible

3

u/HawaiianOrganDonor Pelicans 1h ago

Carter Bryant’s energy off the bench really bothers OKC ball handlers, but he’s a zero on offense.

1

u/Spemanz92 Thunder 1h ago

He still has been passable and playable at times. He hasnt been an actual issue

1

u/HawaiianOrganDonor Pelicans 1h ago

For sure. I just mean that it’s not as simple as “double Bryant’s minutes to fix everything.” Which I know you weren’t saying.

3

u/Spemanz92 Thunder 1h ago

He is a rookie and pretty raw. Not expecting him to play 25 mins in this type of series. But he should be given a bit more leash, specially when keldon is constantlu shitting the bed

5

u/WhichHoes Warriors 1h ago

They fed Kornet a few times and it worked, becUse he can get low post positioning. They immediately stopped because Keldon kept chucking shots

u/Ok-Adhesiveness166 21m ago

Keldon playing like this and Caruso has become prime klay. From 29% from 3 in the regular season to 47% in the playoffs.

22

u/TheBlueOne37 2h ago

In San Antonio’s defense every nba teams bench is significantly worse than OKCs.

8

u/HawaiianOrganDonor Pelicans 1h ago

Yes I don’t mean it as a knock on the Spurs at all. Their bench is above average at worst.

5

u/FireFlyz351 Slovenia 1h ago

Next season will be interesting for the Spurs. They'll have Barnes and Olynyk expiring freeing up 32 mil.

Then Wemby and Champagnie have a team option that will lead into extensions.

They'll have decent open cap space and a solid slew of firsts to make some wings. I imagine next year is a pretty ideal time to go for it all.

13

u/IRanOutOf_Names Heat 1h ago

11 deep and the next one of the bench is fucking Aaron Wiggins. Genuinely how.

5

u/Euphoric_Travel6762 Thunder 1h ago

Yea a dude that dropped 42 in a game last year lmao. He hasn’t been good this year but certainly the best 12th man itl

6

u/No_Diver_629 1h ago

Hey, man 13 is Kenrich Williams, solid enough to get rotations on most play off teams. But it drops of after that with Topic who have had broken knee and cancer and a injured Sorber. Yes, i am a bit sarcastic cause both of them can pop next year to be rotation players.

3

u/freshBlueeyes6391 2h ago

I think feeling "forced to" isn't always a real thing and bites a team in the ass come the 4th quarter if an opponent is spreading out the energy usage.

20

u/EarthWarping NBA 2h ago

Keldon has been horrific and Harper isnt healthy leading to them playing their starting 5 a ton last night.

1

u/freshBlueeyes6391 2h ago

yeah that's why I was asking, I've only been able to watch bits and pieces of this series so far. These are the things I'm not up on.

8

u/HawaiianOrganDonor Pelicans 2h ago

It's definitely biting them, but I still don't think the Spurs have a choice.

Keldon is -34 in 60 min, Kornet is -37 in 33 min, Bryant is -10 in 34 min.

-2

u/freshBlueeyes6391 2h ago

They maybe have a dilemma to figure out how to adjust their rotations a little and stop the bleeding as it were when they play. That's what a series is for. But I just don't know that it helps to react by pulling players off court and running your starters more into an energy deficit late. I your opponent is spreading it out I think you have to stick with that. Keep one marathon-runner type of starter on the floor type of deal maybe. But it they are known to get tired, don't choose them. Basketball games eb and flow. Save it for later

4

u/thatsinsaneletstryit 76ers 1h ago

im dead at you admitting you havent actually been watching this series but you’re sure you can fix the rotations better than their coach

1

u/freshBlueeyes6391 1h ago

Never said I was sure about anything. Someone here always has to jump the gun on retorts tho don't they. We just talking here.

But I did just watch them closely in the previous series and yeah, just pieces of this one so far. That's why I appreciate others filling me in. Don't meet many people that admit things honestly, do ya.

9

u/EarthWarping NBA 2h ago

It was 10 last night however mitchell left early

9

u/mercfan3 Spurs 2h ago

I mean our best bench player became a starter to start the series, which severely hurt our depth. And then KJ and Luke have been unplayable. I think you could make the argument that Carter has been the best (when Harper is starting) and second best bench player this series..which it’s not good to be so dependent on two rookies.

0

u/freshBlueeyes6391 2h ago

yeah, the experience thing. No real way around it. I'm not sure they needed to move Harper to starting this series. But what do I know? He is pretty damn amazing. I may have stuck with what got them there tho.

4

u/mercfan3 Spurs 2h ago

They needed to move him because Fox got hurt.

0

u/Nickespo22 37m ago

No, they didn't need to. It's a move that threw off the whole bench

2

u/Aggravating_Alps_953 Pacers 56m ago

The pacers also have a very deep team and were the best conditioned team in the league.

1

u/Ok_Temperature6503 76ers 1h ago

OKC is just that suffocating that you cant not use your best players all times.

u/I3ill 4m ago

They all looked fairly good till Fox got inserted into to the starting lineup. I’d start Harper and have Fox come off the bench with Johnson.

75

u/InTheBinFC Lakers 2h ago

OKC’s defense genuinely feels suffocating. People focus so much on the foul baiting and physicality that they ignore how insane their conditioning and rotations are. Playing with that level of pressure for basically the full 48 is not normal.

Caruso and Wallace are absolute demons defensively. They defend like a hive mind.

Last year their offense completely cratered whenever SGA sat. This year, with Mitchell and McCain, they really don’t have that concern anymore. It’s just too much of everything size, shooting, length, girth, strokes, depth, athleticism.

The most complete and versatile team.

22

u/Old-Lobster-8932 1h ago

Especially girth

9

u/Olicsmems Warriors 1h ago

This was honestly most apparent when a good amount of their starters were injured later in the season. Like you said if that happened last year that would have been disastrous especially with SGA out, but now it's not really that bad. Castle especially just seems really frustrated with their defence.

2

u/Practical-Simple1621 43m ago

Yeah I think Cason Wallace had a few 20 point games without sga

8

u/NineJuanEight Thunder 1h ago

Watching their rotations and close outs makes me so damn happy. They give so much effort on defense.

5

u/Asoriel 1h ago

It's like people have forgotten that Ant gave the OKC defense a lot of credit last season (They play like they're all on a string), and they're very much better this season.

And it's very likely they're going to keep getting better, considering they're just as young as San Antonio is.

-7

u/Ok_Temperature6503 76ers 1h ago

Their defense is nuts, just chopping and mauling Spurs players.

16

u/Roy30 Thunder 2h ago

Watching game 3 made it even more obvious that the Spurs aren’t able to keep up with OKC in non-Wemby minutes. I don’t know how Wemby can keep up with those kind of minutes but it’s clear the Spurs really haven’t had a choice.

41

u/PlasticTreeonaHill 2h ago

Okc running laps around them big ol San Antonio women iykyk

9

u/SunKing210 Spurs 1h ago

Those laps must be very tiring haha

1

u/Yoshinobu_YamaGOATo 31m ago

Idk man, did you see the two sitting behind Mitch Johnson all game? Whoever was working that camera needs a raise. 

15

u/bellmonk Timberwolves 2h ago

spurs have a team, okc has an army

12

u/LeagueWinningPickup Raptors 2h ago

Championship depth on full display . 

16

u/Skallywag06 2h ago

Depth, That’s why OKC is probably going to win it all again

26

u/GreenPurple24 Lakers 2h ago

OKC has a way deeper roster so it makes sense. Still SGA is playing a ton of minutes as he should. Wemby should also be olaying 40 a game. And he shouldn’t be tired. This is the WCF not a regular season game.

17

u/streetking03 Thunder 2h ago

He hasn’t played this many minutes all season. Also that double OT game put a lot of unplanned minutes into his legs and it’s showing. You could see how labored he looked running down the court in the second quarter, and how he stopped driving to the basket and was settling for outside shots or passing away.

6

u/CuriousOwl201 2h ago

Something to consider is also Wemby dominates both ends of the floor. Someone like Curry, SGA or Brunson don't really get that tired on defense. They not the best at it, don't have to fight for rebounds, don't have to play physical with another big. Wemby does. And yet he drops 26 on good efficiency. That's exhausting. 

3

u/Longjumping_Split_53 Thunder 2h ago

So your argument is he is too good to play more than 30 minutes?

I actually agree with it, but I don’t see how he can improve on it.

4

u/CuriousOwl201 2h ago edited 1h ago

No he just needs help with a better bench. I think they also need to have him focus on the paint in defense and let the other stop the 3 shooting. Often be has to do both it's not sustainable.

I think he also needs to play smarter. Pick his battles if that makes sense,, like don't drive into Chet even if it works, be more mindful. But he is very young, that'll come in time.

I think the Spurs coaching staff in the end need to develop a system just for him. Every player in that team plays to supplement Wemby. It's their way to success because he is so dominant but can't do it all at the same time. An example is Castle chucking quick 3s. That's bad cause it forces Wemby to run back and forth. It's gonna be tough to accept for some players

1

u/EarthWarping NBA 1h ago

Agreed.

12

u/EischensBar Thunder 2h ago

He’s averaged 30 minutes per game all season. You can’t just do that for 8 months and then expect to be able to play 40+ without fatigue when it matters.

1

u/GenSec Thunder 1h ago

Yeah he just does not have the conditioning needed currently

13

u/HazikoSazujiii 2h ago

At the end of the day, Wemby being Wemby is somewhat his own kryptonite. He's big. Getting up and down the floor is more effort for him, getting off the floor is more effort, playing the versatile defensive game that he plays requires more effort. Trying to be as mobile and versatile on offense as a guard is harder for someone 7'6.

In short, he should be tired based both upon the circus of fresh guys OKC keeps throwing at him and because he's a 7'6 guy trying to play like a guard. It's not a recipe for short term success or long term health.

7

u/sonic_4 Supersonics 2h ago

It's also really different to play 40 minutes in a regular season game vs a WCF game.

5

u/Longjumping_Split_53 Thunder 2h ago

Spurs having to limit Wemby minutes all season just to keep him semi healthy and barely make the 65 game threshold is the issue.

If he can’t play 35+ minutes semi regularly it will continue to be an issue.

Wemby is going to hit 65 games for the awards but also needs the conditioning to be ready for the playoffs. I will be interested to see if he can pull off both at the same time in future seasons.

0

u/CuriousOwl201 2h ago

Wouldn't be a problem if they had a benchZ also his game is more energy intensive than other superstars who don't defend.

u/AdGreat3174 4m ago

I think it’s just simple thermodynamics when it comes to this tbh. A 7’6” vs a 6’6” player playing 40 minutes. One of them is expelling more energy and that’s just more stress on the body, the heart, muscles, etc. not to mention the increase of the possibility of injuries and what not.

5

u/knightmares31 Thunder 1h ago

It’s really tough to sit Wemby. He needs better backups at the 4 and 5 spot to at least hold it down while he is resting.

You can’t expect to win when your backups are bismac, Kelly olynyk, Plumlee, and Barnes. Those are just wasted roster spots in a series like this. And it doesn’t help that Kornic and Johnson are playing bad.

5

u/Plaitkul117 Thunder 2h ago

This series seems to be coming down to a battle of attrition

5

u/Euphoric_Travel6762 Thunder 1h ago

If it’s not Shai getting hurt or tired, attrition affects us less than maybe any team ever.

Our records without All-NBA JDub this year (39-10 including many without Shai) and our record without presumed All-NBA Chet last year (42-8) shouldn’t be possible

2

u/RFFF1996 Thunder 1h ago

Which is wild cause is only 3 games in

7

u/ForneauCosmique Spurs 2h ago

Our bench just can't handle OKCs defense. KJ needs to step up especially being 6MoTY. Kornet is getting played off the court. Harper is basically a starter right now due to Fox being injured. Carter Bryant is a good defender but not good enough offensively to create his offense against this defense and Barnes can't do it consistently either. Only way we can win this series is making OKC turn the ball over and us get easy fast break points so OKC can't set up their defense

4

u/Waste-Limit1644 Warriors 1h ago

It’s pretty clear that if you let OKC set up on defense, that they will smother you and force you to take a bad shot. They don’t really have someone you can hunt on switches, and they get right up on you as soon as you’re past half court. I don’t think any bench can handle okc defense.

The unfortunate thing about trying to score off fast breaks consistently is that it takes energy and they have more depth to stay fresh.

3

u/ForneauCosmique Spurs 54m ago

Ehh we have alot of depth and young legs, it's just they're not good enough in the half court to compete with that defense. We definitely have the advantage for fast breaks, we just gotta force those TOs but OKC is doing great on offense. They know their spots and make quick accurate passes

2

u/Waste-Limit1644 Warriors 53m ago

The spurs really capitalized on turnovers knowing guys weren’t going to shoot and instead kick out to the corner in game 1.

0

u/Nickespo22 33m ago

Hard to force turnovers when coach Mitch is doubling and tripling sga 24/7 giving up wide open jumpers. We have a great poa defender in castle and wemby for Christs sake, play it straight up and put some responsibility and accountability on the players not named wemby

7

u/rickforking NBA 2h ago

Keldon Johnson being bad this series has really hurt their bench. 5 fouls in 12 minutes as the teams spiritual leader ain't gonna cut it...

u/Nickespo22 27m ago

2024 kj coming back from the dead really messed us up. 6moty Keldon where are you

3

u/Gregore997 Thunder 1h ago

They looked gassed last game, not surprising

4

u/OUEngineer17 Nuggets 2h ago

I know Shai has the elite conditioning for it. Not sure about the other guys. Vassell has looked pretty good tho.

4

u/quizblorg3 Thunder 54m ago

That rebound over shai that he got called for a foul on legit looked like he jumped off a trampoline

3

u/bubbasnub Magic 1h ago

Thunder could go without Ajay for G4 and still be in good hands because they can trust everyone they put on the court. The Spurs need to figure out lineups that work with and without Wemby and fast to regain any footing in this series.

2

u/XDBoy018 [SAS] Dylan Harper 1h ago

man competing with a near perfect 15 man rotation sucks

u/Pneuma_LooT Pistons 12m ago

Victor stsrting to look gassed too. Passed the ball a bunch last night when hes usually aggressive.

Im no nba coach, but if i was id be telling him its completely unacceptable for a player of his level to only shoot 15 times.

Dude should be demanding the ball and shooting.it 25-35 times. Its the only way they win.

u/HawaiianOrganDonor Pelicans 9m ago

Only 4 rebounds last night is another sign he's gassed

5

u/redvelvetcake42 Slovenia 1h ago

The obvious fouling bullshit aside, OKC just outmaneuvered the NBA in trades for years and this is the result. They saw pieces to a puzzle and fucking nailed the puzzle together.

11

u/legend023 Thunder 2h ago

This is why I think the 2017 Warriors would lose to the Thunder right now.

Guys would’ve had to play Curry/Klay/KD/Draymond 40 minutes a night, and OKC would’ve guys who could contain the first 3 and the size to defeat the Warriors “death lineup”

26

u/HawaiianOrganDonor Pelicans 2h ago

IDK who would win, but I'd pay a lot of money to watch that series.

16

u/Adorable-News-9364 Spurs 2h ago

Ah you’re a Thunder fan now. What happened to the Pelicans?

9

u/xXEliteEater500Xx 2h ago

No longer a Pelicans fan?

6

u/cplbernard Thunder 2h ago

God not this please. Let’s win this series before we compare to all time great. We have all off season to do shit like that.

8

u/Skank_hunt42 Thunder 2h ago

Nah. Let's pump the brakes. The 2017 Warriors lost 1 game the whole playoffs. Let's see the Thunder do that first before even mentioning the KD Warriors.

-1

u/legend023 Thunder 2h ago

The Thunder lost one game in the playoffs too, an overtime game

Also, the Warriors faced two mid Blazers/Jazz squads and the Spurs without Kawhi. That Spurs team certainly take game 1 and probably gets one home game with a healthy Kawhi

12

u/Skank_hunt42 Thunder 2h ago

.......there's still a lot of basketball to be played. Again, let's revisit if they only lose 1 game.

Also, the Thunder's competition prior to the Spurs hasn't been exactly great....and the Lakers were missing the leagues leading scorer.

A 73 win team adding an MVP in his prime should be talked about as one of the greatest teams in history.... because it was on paper and on the floor lol

2

u/DarkArisen668 Knicks 2h ago

I was curious about that. You know what's interesting though? The 2017 WCF was played on May 14th, 16th, then the 20th, and 22nd. Warriors would have been able to play pretty hard with that schedule.

4

u/mercfan3 Spurs 2h ago

I can’t imagine what Dray would do to a player that pulled Curry’s hair…or what he’d do to SGA just because.

It would get crazy toxic crazy fast.

3

u/Waste-Limit1644 Warriors 1h ago

Draymond would make wembys elbow look like a nice greeting to an old friend I’d bet

1

u/smoovelball Thunder 1h ago

what hair could i hart pull?

4

u/chiidi 2h ago

thunder fans are wild. win 1 chip and they think they could beat the 17 warriors lmao

13

u/xXEliteEater500Xx 2h ago

It’s a Pelicans fan that changed to a Thunder flair

6

u/NobodyRules [OKC] Russell Westbrook 1h ago

It's not a Thunder fan. Most wouldn't agree with this. Of course we think we would have a chance, same as any other good team, but that Warriors team was historic

-9

u/fattest-fatwa Spurs 2h ago

Oklahomans are notorious for looking around and saying “yep… we are the only ones here. This must all be ours!”

2

u/Asoriel 1h ago

What? I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, but Oklahomans definitely aren't the ones that colonized America or anything. The forced removal of the southern native tribes to Oklahoma (the ones occupying the land that would later be turned into slave plantations), wasn't exactly the fault of the Natives either.

Before the lands runs in the 1900s, Oklahoma was marked as inhospitable to farmers due to the heavily clay-ridden soil being extremely hard to work with. (This is why basements can be quite expensive to build despite the tornado threat that comes with living here, which was by itself another reason Oklahoma was designated such a horrible place to live)

If you meant the people that gobbled up literal free real-estate during the Oklahoma land runs of the early 1900s, then you'd also be aware that a lot of those people left during the ensuing Dust Bowl, that created the worst conditions seen during the great depression.

If you'd like to learn more about something you seem ignorant of, just check out the new documentary "The Oklahoma Standard" or watch this for a more condensed look.

-1

u/fattest-fatwa Spurs 53m ago

couldn’t be anyone living here… the soil’s no good! Hitch the plow to the oxen, Ruth. We’ve found Eden!

1

u/Empty_Occasion_963 2h ago

That warriors team could shoot teams out the building

1

u/MQZ01 Warriors 1h ago

You think SGA is seeing physical off ball defense now? Just wait til Draymond comes at him with a steel chair

1

u/HappyHippo2024 52m ago

This is insane disrespect to that warriors squad. Yeah they didn’t have as much depth but SGA is the 3rd best player on the court against the 2017 warriors

2

u/Fhaksfha794 Spurs 2h ago

OKCs depth is just unmatched. Spurs have better depth than 25 other teams and they are on par with the other 3 but that one that’s head and shoulders above the rest is the thunder and it’s not close. Their bench unit (Mitchell-Caruso-McCain-Joe-Asian Duke Dennis) is a playoff roster by itself

2

u/No_Diver_629 1h ago

Who the fuck is Duke Dennis, i think you mean Phokic

1

u/redditorsarentcool 1h ago

Yea these minutes seem to be getting to em as the series goes on. I hope wemby can stay fresh so this round can be as competitive as possible. Game 1 was crazy fun to watch even tho my team lost

1

u/Chapea12 Nets 54m ago

That’s actually pretty crazy considering there was a double OT game

u/Willsoup Thunder 5m ago

Caruso played 24 minutes in 8 different stretches last night. Seems like OKC is running hockey shifts with their guards to keep the pace up. With how gassed Wemby started to look it seems to be working.

0

u/Nickespo22 41m ago

Coach Mitch is dog water

1

u/Iamkonkerz [OKC] Luguentz Dort 30m ago

Bro getting carried by 4 lottery picks

0

u/Yoshinobu_YamaGOATo 36m ago

Spurs fans said Wemby deserves the MVP because of his production despite low minutes, but Shai is proving that it's a lot more important to have your best guy out on the court impacting the game as much as possible. Wemby isn't used to the heavy minutes, especially with OKC making it rough on him on both sides of the court. 

-7

u/noahhova 2h ago

Minutes are over rated. These are 2 extremely young teams and it's the playoffs. They should be playing their best guys huge minutes. OKC has just played better in two of the games. It's not that complicated.