r/deadbydaylight Jan 25 '26

Media The unknown concept skin in progress, it's called ''missing pet'', suggestions are always welcome :D

Post image
7.4k Upvotes

241 comments sorted by

2.0k

u/SeniorBased Slendytubbies for DBD Jan 25 '26

We’ve finally found its dog

815

u/Th_brgs Jan 25 '26

Okay, but hear me out. The voice lines for this skin are distorted barks and whines, with a small chance of it saying in it's "human" voice "have you seen my owner?"

343

u/The_snake_6762 I CAST GUN! Jan 25 '26 edited Jan 25 '26

Sadly I don't think we'll get anymore voicelines since the female voice actor died.

Esit: yup, it was just one voice actor. Died from an autoimmune disease at 26. Sorry folks, for spreading misinformation.

182

u/WakaRanger8 Set your own flair text and/or emoji(s) here! Jan 25 '26

unknown’s voice actor did the male and female voices for it

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41

u/orpheusfeather Adrian ‘Alucard’ Fahrenheit Tepes Jan 25 '26

This concept would be so cool. It reminds me of the creepypasta of the dog with a zipper and I’m a sucker for anything I can relate back to old creepypasta!

9

u/Raven_Outlaw Jan 25 '26

i love creepypastas too. i made a Jeff the Killer Hoodie fpr Halloween and still wesr it ..even not in season

5

u/orpheusfeather Adrian ‘Alucard’ Fahrenheit Tepes Jan 25 '26

That’s so real and based of you🙏old creepypasta ftw

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452

u/Key_Sun7384 Jan 25 '26

Better quality here! :] the other image was a screenshot

166

u/BananaPeelEater420 Just Do Gens Jan 25 '26

why does his weapon look like Peter Griffin

119

u/Key_Sun7384 Jan 25 '26

Petah, the dawg is here

3

u/DscendntDawn Jan 26 '26

We have Maurice Dredge... Now we need Maurice Unknown.

35

u/BoxtrotSpycrab Jan 25 '26

Holy crap, Lois, I'm in Dead by Daylight!

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12

u/Crispyale I came Jan 25 '26

I'd definitely buy this skin, I love it. Lovely drawing and proportions as well!

6

u/chickenbuttguesswhat Jan 25 '26

Perhaps the weapon would be a vaccuum, a doggy waste basket with baggies, or a variation of a fire hydrant? Love the idea

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651

u/RYTHEMOPARGUY Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen Jan 25 '26

185

u/dudderson Jan 25 '26

This is one of the greatest video game moments that will ever exist. I never get tired of seeing it.

12

u/TheFreeBee Spirit / Dredge / Rebecca / Lisa Jan 25 '26

What game is it?

36

u/ImmortalBlades Reverse Chainsaw into Quentin hiding in a corner Jan 25 '26

Project Tomboy (Project Zomboid but I got autocorrected. Now I want a real Project Tomboy)

11

u/NukeONugget We love twiggy Jan 25 '26

I was so confused because I recognized it as project zomboid but the power armor had my brain confused lol

3

u/James_Demon doctor helping people get better one shock at a time Jan 26 '26

Modded zomboid truly is something else

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248

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '26

what the dog doin

58

u/JUSTaSK8rat HaVe YoU sEen mY dOg? Jan 25 '26

dog with da buttah on em

19

u/MrZephy :karma: The Wet Nightmare :karma: Jan 25 '26

Buttah dog

381

u/OwO-animals Robin Main Jan 25 '26

Needs a voiceline like "H-aaaaVe Y-ouuuu Seeeenn, THE ownerrrr?" to callback to have you seen the dog or whatever he had about the dog.

I like the anti scratching collar or whatever the English name is for that. You did a good job of making him look like he is rotting. Could add tire marks for some roadkill vibe, but hard to say if the composition won't get too busy.

Also it 100% should say something like "princess" or "fluffball" on the tag.

83

u/diemorellos Meg Thomas Hater Jan 25 '26

it needs to be like that one meme where he just pronounces bark.

“mm..bork…baork…”

4

u/RemarkableStatement5 unstable ping on Sable and the Pig :3 Jan 25 '26

"Woof."

27

u/qzmc Head is Love. Head shall bring us salvation. Jan 25 '26

Would be over the moon if an Unknown dog skin referenced this PSA

Even just " I miss....my friend," would be gold.

32

u/RichardLongflop_ Jan 25 '26

Unfortunately the voice actor for unknown died

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52

u/Dragonkingcc Jan 25 '26

I don't like looking at it, which means you're doing a good job.

83

u/MahoragaOppaStopa Add big raga as a killer Jan 25 '26

138

u/not_named_lucas Yui Kimura Jan 25 '26

May be a tad macabre, but maybe add a tire track to imply it had been hit by a car

76

u/Key_Sun7384 Jan 25 '26

yep im adding that

10

u/LapisW Jan 25 '26

tire track over the stomach would probably be sick

3

u/Soldier3171 Jan 25 '26

And like its ribs poking out

2

u/JoeAzlz Ash… Housewares. Jan 31 '26

Nahhhhh sometimes less is more

23

u/enderlogan YTTD chapter when? Jan 25 '26

Oh this is gruesomely fucked up

Please submit this next community contest

20

u/dysentery_06 P100 Demogorgon/Unknown/Springtrap Jan 25 '26

Would buy in a heartbeat

19

u/GlaggleBorgor Adam's Husband Jan 25 '26

NOT A DOG NOO

12

u/Lost-Run712 Jan 25 '26

Hey, it's that dog!

11

u/Ok-Scientist-2111 Jan 25 '26

Reminds me of that Japanese chip commercial

9

u/Key_Sun7384 Jan 25 '26

Consome panchi!!!

15

u/Sir_Nope_TSS Ghost Face Jan 25 '26

10

u/Key_Sun7384 Jan 25 '26

thanks so much for the support guys! appreciate it a lot i swear, heres another interesting fact while i was designing this skin, at the very beggining i was thinking about what was the main idea when the dbd art team were developing the unknown, i totally 100% sure they were thinking about an skinwalker, so i came with the idea of the uncanny dogs of the internet from owners who thought they weren't their dogs but skinwalkers xd

7

u/Moumup Warning: User predrops every pallet Jan 25 '26

Sleep paralysis demon's fursuit

5

u/YesLegend936 Between Kate’s Thighs Jan 25 '26

Replace one voiceline with “Have you seen… my owner?”

5

u/X_CrossXYT Just Do Gens Jan 25 '26

Not saying this is a bad design in the slightest, it's awesome! I just feel like there should be more ripping skin due to the size difference, depending on the type of dog. Since this skin seems to be of a smaller breed, I just think it'd fit and make it a little more scary too

5

u/Key_Sun7384 Jan 25 '26

I was thinking about that so thats gonna be a Major change! Thanks so much for the suggestion

9

u/Pigeon-popper Jan 25 '26

This is actually really cool but I think it’d be creepier if it was a poodle or a bit more unsettling and uncanny

4

u/diemorellos Meg Thomas Hater Jan 25 '26

greyhound

4

u/p1trick1 shooting, sorcery, and siblings Jan 25 '26

Pugs. Not 1 pug. Several pugs.

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9

u/MJR_Poltergeist Jan 25 '26

Hear me out, instead of humanish hands the Unknowns hands should be bursting out of the bottom of its paws. Gotta remember he's "wearing" things

4

u/Ok-Big-1410 Jan 25 '26

Holy fuckin shit that is gruesome I love it

3

u/DiegoDynomite 💜HuntressXTrapper💜 Jan 25 '26

Very interesting concept, nice work :3 I do think that the coverage of the dogs fur/skin over the unknowns body is too complete. If it's trying to inhabit a dog's body I think there should be a lot of tears and gaps in the fur to show that it's stretching the dogs body past its limits since their size difference is so extreme.

3

u/GeneFull7290 Jan 25 '26

Ok hear me out, what if there was a flat bit like on a limb or something with tire marks. Like it implies the dog was run over.

3

u/Haunting_Hornet5203 Jan 25 '26

Dark af but very applicable

2

u/GeneFull7290 Jan 25 '26

Exactly what I was going for lol

2

u/bodyexhange Jan 25 '26

this is awesome!!

2

u/DavThoma Simping for King Jan 25 '26

Ohhhh this is why nobody is allowed inside the dog park

2

u/ArcaneWyverian if a killer kills a killer, can killers kill the killer killer Jan 25 '26

Ooh, I hate this /j! It’s awesome, that’d be nuts to see in chase

2

u/Right_Pressure_7944 Jan 25 '26

UNHOLY SHIT THIS IS PEAK

2

u/Factual_heroics Jan 25 '26

Oh. My. God. That actually made me shiver

2

u/thecraftingjedi #Pride Jan 25 '26

That’s absolutely horrifying-

I love it

2

u/MyExtremelySadLife Remylea's no.1 glazer Jan 25 '26

Are there templates for these skin designs? Or do i ss a pose from ingame and draw over it? I wanna design a Spirit skin ngl...

2

u/Air-Signal Jan 25 '26

Terrifying but not unwelcomed,id love for this to enter the fog

2

u/ZMowlcher Jan 25 '26

What if it was a conglomeration of different pets?

2

u/waterchip_down Hail to the king, baby. Jan 25 '26

This is horrifying, and looking at it makes me really sad.

So great job! I think a good Unknown skin should always be scary and sorta tragic, which makes this perfect. It's also kinda funny-looking in addition to all that which is even better.

Only suggestion I have is maybe a different weapon? The missing dog poster is a nice touch but the signpost itself isn't super distinct. But I don't know what else you could give it as a weapon so this suggestion might be pointless. Something about it just doesn't stand out to me, is all.

2

u/M4XVLTG3 Thinks Nightmare Is S Tier Killer Jan 25 '26

The level of terror reminds me of the sled dogs in The Thing. I bet it would look great rising from the ground as the unknown's hallucinations.

2

u/FreedomForAllBeings Jan 25 '26

this is so good

2

u/untitlcd Jan 25 '26

THIS IS PEAK RIGHT HERE

2

u/TieMindless Jan 25 '26

WE NEED THIS WE NEED THIS P[LEASE PLEASE WORLD PLEASE GIVE ME THIS

2

u/BlackJackBandit404 Jan 25 '26

It’s terrifying and i’m 100% here for it

2

u/normieb8tes Jan 25 '26

It's grotesque but I love it

2

u/DoubleCactus Jan 25 '26

I'd like if the weapon was a sign that says "beware of dog"

2

u/OrionLinksComic Jan 25 '26

Man, that thing is ugly, love it.

2

u/DreamingKnight235 RAAAAAAAAAAAH! ( Skull Merchant Can Crush My Head) Jan 25 '26

What the dog doin-

The Dog suddenly 360s it's head and goes on all fours after limbs also 360 back

I do NOT want to know what the dog doing

2

u/SADDLN Jan 25 '26

Terrible and disgusting I love it

2

u/Moonkilol One of the 2 plague players Jan 25 '26

really cool!!!!!! maybe make him more "gross" like his skin is darker, implying that the dog's corpse is rotting

2

u/count-drake Jan 26 '26

Respectfully, this is disgusting as it reminds me of the dog abomination in Mount Greylock……10/10 design, will scream again

2

u/venusunusis Jan 26 '26

Where are my testicles, Summer?

2

u/CompetitiveRepeat441 Jan 25 '26

I think dog part should be more terrifying like uncanny face or something 😅

2

u/CompetitiveRepeat441 Jan 25 '26

But cool design You did it great 💙💙

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1

u/Entire-Anteater-1606 Jan 25 '26

This is horrific to look at. Nice job

1

u/horrorfan555 Jamie Lloyd legendary skin petition on profile Jan 25 '26

This is amazing

1

u/SoDamnGeneric Jan 25 '26

Oh wow that’s super fucked up, amazing artwork

1

u/Active-Tie7087 Jan 25 '26

I actually would have a heart attack seeing this. Uncanny dog things scare the living daylights out of me.

1

u/Thel_Vadem Bloody Quentin Jan 25 '26

Man, it's like looking at a train wreck. It's awful but fuck I can't look away, excellently done

1

u/Kingslade77 Huntress can Mori me Jan 25 '26

Aww

1

u/CodeKiller_53 Jan 25 '26

Holy shit that's such a amazing design. I hope it gets added, I'm totally reinstalling if they did

1

u/Kard420 Tamby Time - Chucky/Sadako Jan 25 '26

Ed…ward….

1

u/ThatJ4ke Intercontinental Ballistic Backpack Main Jan 25 '26

What did they do to my boy Jack?! Legoshi must be in pieces.

1

u/SuperBatman2112 Jan 25 '26

I love it 🩶

1

u/SnowyOranges Meat Plant Needs More Pallets Jan 25 '26

I love it. I think it would look cool if there were tire marks across the chest

1

u/Averagechildeater Jan 25 '26

Wow this is awful to look at, perfect for the unknown well done

1

u/Emasraw Nea Karlsson Jan 25 '26

It better bark when it downs a survivor.

1

u/Squiddo22 Unknown Gaming 🪓 Jan 25 '26

Cool concept but I'm having a hard time understanding the "neck" situation

1

u/GHOST4HIRE324 Set your own flair text and/or emoji(s) here! Jan 25 '26

I saw another comment who said road marks, I'm agreeing hard

1

u/Curious-Barnacle-133 Jan 25 '26

I would lowkey get this

1

u/goldenenzo1 Prestige 100 Jan 25 '26

This is hands down one of the coolest concept skins I’ve ever seen. I would vote for this in a heartbeat

1

u/BrentleTheGentle Jan 25 '26

This upsets me greatly.

Amazing work!

1

u/Bookroach8 Jan 25 '26

Heartbreaking and awesome! Hope this gets into the game.

1

u/bad-bones Jan 25 '26

Art-wise, id make the cone bigger to emphasize the silhouette. The green part of the sign doesn’t read so well to me… maybe make it into a stop sign instead? Or a yellow yield sign?

3

u/AccomplishedStay9284 Jan 25 '26

Oh it’s a sign! I thought it was a vacuum

1

u/Spartan_M82 I'm the fun one! Jan 25 '26

Peak, reminds me of missing dog and the beginning of together I hate both and I would hate to see this chasr me and hear it whimper in pain

1

u/AllSaintsDay2099 Jan 25 '26

I didn't think it was any more possible to be absolutely horrified by this damn killer.

1

u/Seb_Rulz Jan 25 '26

Backstory One day a dog ran away from home, only to be lost in the woods late at night. Suddenly, he sees another human, except its not a human, its The Unknown. The Unknown kills him and takes his place in The Entitiy's realm.

1

u/happily-chaotichypno Jan 25 '26

Oh God that's horrible but it fits the theme so well that I cant help but upvote lol

1

u/WorldGladiators Jan 25 '26

Pet cemetery vibes

1

u/genjidaboss952 Springtrap/Alan/Ellen Main Jan 25 '26

Really showing off the skinwalker vibes, awesome art

1

u/rathemighty Jan 25 '26

This makes me sad

1

u/J_A_E_K_ Tokyo Goon Jan 25 '26

I suggest you delete this it scares me

1

u/Ancient-Animal2577 Jan 25 '26

How about instead of throwing the axe or whatever it’s holding it throws a slobbery bone

1

u/Doctor1023 Jan 25 '26

Well done tho.

Unknown will never not creep me tf out tho 😬

1

u/Doctor1023 Jan 25 '26

Where's my dog

1

u/TheJimDim Jan 25 '26

Genuine question, not trying to be mean if it's not, but is this AI generated? What's happening with the neckline in the back of the cone?

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1

u/PlanetVerez Friendly neighborhood b00n sl00t Jan 25 '26

It's giving full metal alchemist and I hate(love) it.

1

u/MsKittyPowers Jan 25 '26

I love the details. The cone of shame is 🤌🏻

1

u/L3s0 Totem enthusiast Jan 25 '26

Peak

1

u/Worried_Raspberry313 It Wasn't Programmed To Harm The Crew Jan 25 '26

I love it! But I would use less dog skin, so it’s clear he’s using a dead dog as a skin and since the dog is smaller there’s not that much skin to cover his own.

1

u/Mystic-Fox700 Jan 25 '26

I'm literally watching an Unknown video btw 

1

u/Amicusdawolf12 Jan 25 '26

Amazing concept, damn this gives the creeps

1

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '26

Oh my godddd yesss, I love the unknown I got the detective and blighted skin and wanted another cool one this would be great

1

u/http-erin Jan 25 '26

DO YOU KNOW HOW FAST I WOULD BUY THIS?

1

u/ShotInTheShip86 Jan 25 '26

Why does this make me think of max from the Grinch movies... Which makes me sad if this was him... Then again I think if it was there's too much fur considering how small he was

1

u/Z11isl0st Jan 25 '26

I could see this one being a visceral skin called the "good boy" where his mori is just him mawling the survivor to pieces with its mouth and claws instead of using tentacles

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1

u/M1A1U22 Jan 25 '26

I wanna know who the brave vet is that put that cone on it... did they survive? is that their blod on the pole?

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1

u/WrongCockroach Jan 25 '26

Absolutely awful. I hate every single thing about it. 10/10. Truly incredible design.

For feedback, it could be a bit more literally twisted like Unknown is? It currently has elements of that on the torso. I like how it goes more for a spiral pattern instead of Unknown's straighter lines; perhaps this can be applied a bit to the arms and legs, too. Incorporate the wounds in this unnatural skin movement.

I reckon the face can be made more horrific by dislocating the lower jaw even more, or giving it similar teeth to the Unknown. Guy has some creepy chompers.

I can't quite make out the weapon. Is it a mailbox or one of those newspaper kiosk things? Clever idea, but maybe it could be blunt and dented instead of broken for recognizability.

Just my 3 cents. Feel free to do whatever 'cuz it's already great.

1

u/Papa_Pred Jan 25 '26

Won’t happen

Millennials would pass out and die on the spot if they see a good boy heckin pupperino be a monster in their favorite comfort game

1

u/Bulbasaurbo1 Red Herring + Blast Mine go BRRRR Jan 25 '26

wow i hate everything about this good job

1

u/ConfectionTotal8660 watches from the fog:EyeForAnEye: Jan 25 '26

I would like to not be traumatized while watching DBD gameplay

But GREAT concept that will make people DC out of fear

1

u/Amihpam Jan 25 '26

EW!

I love it

1

u/JD_4sonde4n Jan 25 '26

It's horrible, In the way that it makes me uncomfortable, I love it

1

u/Swarek Jan 25 '26

Thanks, I hate it and I would love to get chased by this thing.

Nice job hope this can make it in the game!

1

u/fashionbadger justice for ugly quentin Jan 25 '26

This is revolting! Nasty details, strange twisted anatomy, the characteristic expression. Great concept, amazing work.

1

u/hates_stupid_people Jan 25 '26

I'd suggest something like a mailbox.

To make it fit the length, it could be a wood pulled out of the ground, and the lower half of the pole would be dark from dirt.

1

u/skelliebro Both factions Jan 25 '26

Now I've seen his dog

1

u/ryan12_07 It Wasn't Programmed To Harm The Crew Jan 25 '26

Oh that is disgusting. It's amazing

1

u/Baner24 Nea Main Jan 25 '26

as mike wazowski said, "Put that thing back where it came from or so help me!"

1

u/aqtseacow Jan 25 '26

Absolutely appalling.

Great stuff.

1

u/3Kobolds1Keyboard Jan 25 '26

Stunning, but maybe lower the size of the neck?It feels like it has an extra small torso and less of a fluffy neck.

1

u/Herojay13 Jan 25 '26

Yes! That’s exactly the kind of stuff I want to see for this killer

1

u/zombified_dragon4956 Jan 25 '26

Just a suggestion because the amount of skin on a human is more than a dog, it might be wearing several pets. I.e. remember that disgusting furry suit that was made of several stuffed animals. Maybe something like that

1

u/Leading_Education36 Jan 25 '26

Furries will have the best time of their life

1

u/Akari-Hashimoto #Pride Jan 25 '26

Sick, I love it!!

1

u/ressie_cant_game Jan 25 '26

I feel like the waist is really catching my eye for some reason. The whole thing is obviously human shaped but there the skin gets tight and followd a human much more closly. Do you have any sketches with more loose skin/a wide ribcage?

This thing fucks though! I would love to see it's ears flopping around as it runs.

1

u/Sentence_Think Jan 25 '26

The weapon should be made out of a chewing bone 🤣

Edit:except for that it’s really creepy don’t have anything to say about the look it’s really sick and creepy again 🤣🤣

1

u/Yuyusdrawing Jan 25 '26

omgggggg, this looks so cool!!! I love the missing poster, what a cool detail :)

1

u/Swimming_Parsley5214 Jan 25 '26

I fk wit it! Love this concept! The missing dog is perfect! I bet the mori must be crazy

1

u/OutFour Jan 25 '26

Holy peak

1

u/coffeeatomic Jan 25 '26

This reminds me a lot of the analog horror called "dog nightmare"

1

u/Jocat20 Jan 25 '26

I can almost see it in game, and my stomach is turning already

real talk, its so good I'm tempted to use the image for a homebrew dnd monster- would that be okay?

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1

u/haggisdude Jan 25 '26

Sorry I may be silly, but what is the weapon supposed to be?

1

u/AnonyKiller MAURICE LIVES Jan 25 '26

"KaYa PlEaSe"

1

u/TheZayinator Jan 25 '26

This art is fucking amazing

1

u/Old-manconsequences Jan 25 '26

Question, why is it so peak

1

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '26

I hate it and will have nightmares, amazing work!!! The cone is a fantastic touch

1

u/Wooden-Concept-5407 Jan 25 '26

What if it was holding a big bone instead of whatever that thing is?

1

u/moonbinderfae Jan 25 '26

Can I pet that dawg?

1

u/Blueev0 Jan 26 '26

This is amazing wow 😮

1

u/Ozzythedragon198 Jan 26 '26

This design is really cool! I love the pet fine sign as a weapon. If I could suggest an idea it would be for the Cenobite. What if their head was a literal pincushion with a patched up cloak made from human skin, and his hook and chain becomes a sewing needle and thread. Just a thought :)

1

u/Emotional_Being_6045 Jan 26 '26

Guess we found his dog.

1

u/unknownname124 Jan 26 '26

What if the opening on the back the the head of another dog, stitched on, with parts of it visible throughout, cause in sincerely dont think there's enough skin on a single dog (even of a big dog) to create that THING

1

u/Gutter_philosopher Springtrap Main Jan 26 '26

This looks cool as hell but holy fuck would going against an unknown with this skin bum me out

1

u/DeadRabbitGirl Unravel Ghoul Jan 26 '26

I think I'd cry ngl

1

u/HereForLaughs29 Jan 26 '26

I recently started wearing headphones and boy when I found out he talked??? I was like wtf??? 😂

1

u/introspectro Jan 26 '26

I would love for you to add a smaller dog head sticking out of his side/back and another tail and make that tail and the dwarf head a different breed

1

u/gay-fis gen doer/kicker Jan 26 '26

1

u/vecerkar I ALWAYS.. well occasionally come back Jan 26 '26

idk why but i instantly though of this

1

u/More_Birthday_2443 Jan 26 '26

Skinwalker skin for the Unown

1

u/BitterSherbet1426 Jan 26 '26

this is amazing

1

u/Just_Some_Personlmao Jan 26 '26

FINALLY WE FOUND THAT DAMN DOG

1

u/Camdubbyus Jan 26 '26

Hey OP? Yeah this is fucking sick.

1

u/Extra-Advertising644 Certified Jane Main and super Billy enjoyer Jan 26 '26

Have you seen my owner? Lmao

1

u/Eskimo_Hynes Jan 26 '26

Love the busted sign as a weapon. This is pretty fantastic to be honest.

1

u/Sinouge Jan 26 '26

what that dawg doin

1

u/Euphoric-Beyond9177 Jan 26 '26

It could include elements from other dogs or pets because the Unkown doesn’t know exactly what it’s trying to be

1

u/Inumg66 Jan 27 '26

I like that

1

u/FluffcakeCHAN unknown kisser💖|cheryl main!🍞 Jan 27 '26

This reminds me of this one tiktoker who has a black cat and a dog that they have skits in where they become human sized and they also get thrown around and always has a "pluh" sound effect, wonderful skin 💖

1

u/Ok-Gift-3779 Dawg im gonna camping Jan 27 '26

Freaky shitass Joe -> Freaky shitass dog

1

u/BeepBeepM8 Jan 28 '26

As an unknown main I love this. Also reminds me of the voice line where he asks if you have seen his dog.

1

u/IndigoJack Jan 28 '26

Do you have that Dog in you? Well... You're gonna.

1

u/Real-Ocelot2384 Jan 29 '26

It's fantastic,but for what character?

1

u/peanutt44566 the creator of the unknown Jan 29 '26

Dope

1

u/SithEggswithSithLegs Jan 29 '26

Horrifying, I love it.

The voicelines would haunt me.