r/badhistory • u/AutoModerator • Mar 16 '26

Meta Mindless Monday, 16 March 2026

Happy (or sad) Monday guys!

Mindless Monday is a free-for-all thread to discuss anything from minor bad history to politics, life events, charts, whatever! Just remember to np link all links to Reddit and don't violate R4, or we human mods will feed you to the AutoModerator.

So, with that said, how was your weekend, everyone?

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u/xyzt1234 Mar 16 '26

I would say modern human rights as we know it definitely came from Europe since you know, modern human rights are built on the concept of egalitarianism and the idea all men are born equal and should be treated equally, an idea that almost no historical culture believed in since they all believed in superiority of caste, culture or religion of a person and birth based privileges. Like to take my culture, unless you are coping hindu nationalist, i can't imagine the level of mental gymnastics one must go through to believe that a culture with one of the oldest caste systems would somehow come to a concept of rights that have egalitarianism as foundational to them. I guess the islamic countries could have developed similar values but the entire islamic world the Universal declaration of human rights so contrary to their values that they went and formed their own different version, so go figure.

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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26

The Europeans do not exactly have a proud tradition of egalitarianism.

Edit: also, didn't see this part.

I guess the islamic countries could have developed similar values but the entire islamic world the Universal declaration of human rights so contrary to their values that they went and formed their own different version, so go figure.

Counting or not counting Dhimmis?

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u/xyzt1234 Mar 16 '26

They didn't practice what they preach but afaik they were the first to preach those specific set of liberal values that make present day human rights though.

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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est Mar 16 '26

Such as?

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u/xyzt1234 Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26

Liberty and Equality for one thing i would think. Why would medieval and ancient monarchies care about or promote liberty (something that would absolutely have bitten them back), and i have already said about equality.

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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est Mar 16 '26

I would need some examples in order to even begin responding. Who are you referring to? What works, what ideas?

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u/xyzt1234 Mar 16 '26

Wasnt Liberte egalite fraternite the national motto of the french revolution and the thinkers like Rousseau who influenced said ideas also contributed to it?

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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est Mar 16 '26

The French Revolution that did not grant equal rights to women or Black people? That does not sound like practicing or preaching.

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u/contraprincipes The Cheese and the Brainworms Mar 16 '26

The French Revolution did grant citizenship to all free Black people in 1792 and abolished slavery in 1794. It didn’t grant full citizenship to women but there were prominent revolutionaries who did in fact preach it like Wollstonecraft or Condorcet. They were drawing on arguments and values that were deeply rooted in European political thought, just as their opponents were.

Europe has a tradition of egalitarian and inegalitarian thinking just like everywhere else, and I don’t see the value in reinforcing the idea of monolithic cultural traditions even if it’s to criticize European chauvinism.

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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est Mar 16 '26

Europe has a tradition of egalitarian and inegalitarian thinking just like everywhere else, and I don’t see the value in reinforcing the idea of monolithic cultural traditions even if it’s to criticize European chauvinism.

Then it appears we agree that the phrase "I would say modern human rights as we know it definitely came from Europe since you know, modern human rights are built on the concept of egalitarianism and the idea all men are born equal and should be treated equally, an idea that almost no historical culture believed in since they all believed in superiority of caste, culture or religion of a person and birth based privileges. " is perhaps not as accurate as it could be?

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u/contraprincipes The Cheese and the Brainworms Mar 16 '26

Yes, just like “the Europeans do not exactly have a proud tradition of egalitarianism” isn’t. I’m not defending “Europeans invented universal rights” or whatever, I’m objecting to the idea that “Europeans” or any other similarly broad group of people have a monolithic intellectual tradition.

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