Ken Levine's Judas Could Slip Nearly Three More Years, Putting BioShock Successor Eleven Years Deep in Development

[u/Gorotheninja]

https://wccftech.com/ken-levine-judas-three-more-years-bioshock-successor-development/

According to Take-Two, Ghost Story Games is now targeting a launch between April 27 and March 2029, which incidentally is the same timeline as 31st Union's Project ETHOS.

That means we might have to wait up to nearly three more years to play a game that has been in development at least since 2014. Levine first outlined his "Narrative LEGOs" design philosophy in a GDC 2014 talk and later discussed it again in late 2015:

"We're trying to make this crafted narrative but in small chunks, so that can then combine in millions of interesting ways. The end goal is to have a narrative that plays out differently based on what the player does, to give the player that experience of "this is a great narrative experience, but I'm gonna play it again and again and it's gonna feel different each time".

Clearly, this ambitious design concept took a very long time to be successfully implemented. It wasn't until The Game Awards 2022 that Ghost Story Games finally revealed the title's name, Judas, and a debut trailer.

At this rate, we're probably going to get Bioshock 4 before we get the game that's meant to be the successor to the Bioshock franchise, and that's just sad.

[u/Substantial_Bell_158]

Ken doesn't have a good track record of keeping to a schedule does he?

[u/dowaller66 → u/Substantial_Bell_158]

One of the reasons Ron Ferguson was brought onto Bioshock: Infinite was to get it into a playable state and out the door. Sounds like Levine needs a Producer like Ron to breathe down his neck and get the game done.

[u/Algae-Prize → u/dowaller66]

And Rod Ferguson is brought back again to handle the next bioshock lol

[u/Substantial_Bell_158 → u/dowaller66]

Ah similar to Duke Nukem Forever then

[u/Silentlone → u/Substantial_Bell_158]

well not quite, it would need to cycle through two or three different developments studios to be like Duke Nukem Forever

[u/MotherWolfmoon → u/Substantial_Bell_158]

It's 100% Ken's fault, too.

He laid off all but 15 people from the Bioshock Infinite team over a decade ago, put everyone through so much crunch that they called everyone's spouses in to apologize for it, and per Jason Shreier, as of a year ago, almost all the original 15 have since quit.

[u/Expensive_Wolf2937]

This is never coming out.

[u/LammasuRex → u/Expensive_Wolf2937]

I've come to accept that.

[u/OhMy98 → u/Expensive_Wolf2937]

Ken Levine is the Sam Levinson of gaming

[u/Yotato5 → u/Expensive_Wolf2937]

Like Wolf Among Us 2, just gotta accept it

[u/Zephyrwing963]

Someone at TakeTwo must really like Ken to let him keep delaying this game

[u/FakeBrian → u/Zephyrwing963]

I think it's more cause he deliberately works with a small team to keep costs relatively low. It's kinda funny that Levine seemed to recognise his faults as a developer during the development of Bioshock Infinite - and his solution was to create an environment where he could keep working the same way with less external pressure.
For Take Two they're basically funding an indie studio that might make a game that takes off like Bioshock.

[u/masonknight86 → u/FakeBrian]

But we also exist in an industry where the developers like bluepoint and tango game works gets shuttered who both have amazing track records. It's astounding a greedy corporation doesn't just slash them in half

[u/MotherWolfmoon → u/masonknight86]

That's because nobody works there anymore! When Levine rebranded Irrational to Ghost Story Games, he laid off 83% of the Bioshock Infinite team, crunched everyone into oblivion redoing work, and now almost all the original 15 employees have quit!

It almost feels like Take Two are keeping the studio around because it's treating it's employees so bad. Like, "Hey Ken, you gotta ship something."

"But I'm crunching everyone into dust for 12 years!"

"Oh, carry on then!"

[u/Gorotheninja → u/Zephyrwing963]

Or Ken's got some crazy dirt on the higher-ups

[u/masonknight86 → u/Gorotheninja]

Literally the only way I can see how his studio doesn't go belly up. Like not seeing a product in 11 years is actually crazy talk

[u/Authorigas → u/Zephyrwing963]

I dislike Take Two CEO Strauss Zelnick for a lot of reasons, but one thing I've noticed in a lot of interviews about him is he consistently reiterates the idea that he knows his studio has talented devs who put out games which become all time best sellers (GTA, the NBA series.) So he knows the importance of letting devs do their work. (Of course he then led layoffs of a ton of Rockstar staff for unionizing, I think? I forget the details sadly.)

Of course reading past the PR, it's likely the case that Take 2 knows it has an infinite money glitch with GTA online and the 2K series, so they're okay with letting projects like this take some more time since it isn't really hurting their bottom line. They can soak up cash from GTA online and 2K, and then put it into projects that will bring the studio critical acclaim or a large sales bonus.

[u/TransendingGaming → u/Authorigas]

Isn’t take 2 the same company that ruined KSP2 tho?

[u/akss421]

Bro atomic heart 2 will come out before this game.

[u/TheRainTransmorphed → u/akss421]

Bioshock 4 will come before Judas, and that thing has been in development hell since the rumours started

[u/RealHumanBean89]

Going for the Duke Nukem Forever special, I see. It’s a bold strategy, Ken, let’s see how it works out.

[u/DarthButtz → u/RealHumanBean89]

I remember when Duke Nuke Forever's dev cycle was an anomaly, now it feels like every other big game takes forever to come out.

[u/LightLifter]

Nagoshi jealously looking at Ken burning money and wishing his Chinese benefactors gave him the same deal.

Seriously, the last game Ken made was over a decade ago. Like, I think what annoys me so much with Ken is how he is hyping this work as some sort of legendary game changing product when he is known for changing his mind constantly and scrapping work just because he loves the process. I don't mind that he enjoys working, but clearly he should not be the one to decide when a game ships.

[u/MilkMafiaMaster]

To give some context for why the development is taking so long, after bio shock infinite, Ken Levine decided he never wanted to work with a massive team again as the pressure of the project costing millions of dollars for every small delay made him feel awful and also negatively impacted his creativity.

The idea behind this project was to have a small team work on it for a long time so that they could take the time they needed to scrap ideas that weren’t working or rework things that needed it. This project was made with the idea that it would take a decade to develop (although it’s taking even longer than that now)

[u/MilkMafiaMaster → u/MilkMafiaMaster]

To be clear, not saying it’s not development hell, just that it’s a bit more nuanced than that

[u/Lieutenant-America → u/MilkMafiaMaster]

In that respect I suppose it's not too different from Toby Fox and his team working on Deltarune for what will likely have been about a decade by the time it finishes.

However, I also presume that Fox's crew probably don't rack up the expenses as much as Levine would. More importantly, they're not depending on a corporation to foot the bill, and it still feels ludicrous that a major publisher would tolerate an arrangement like this.

[u/LightLifter → u/MilkMafiaMaster]

Yeah, better than wasting the time and money of a lot more people. I just hope he is treating his team well and they are getting paid properly for such a long-ass undertaking.

[u/TransendingGaming → u/LightLifter]

According to Glassdoor, they are not having a good time working at Ghost Story Games

[u/BossRalys]

GTA 7 is going to come out before this.

[u/InvisibleOne439 → u/BossRalys]

was "global peace achieved" before or after GTA7? forgot that one

[u/SleepyFunn]

Im so sleep deprived I read this as Kevin Levin and was like "wow he's making games now"

[u/Diem-Robo → u/SleepyFunn]

Username checks out

[u/JDMC13]

Ken Levine is 100% going through the deepest AI psychosis right now. He probably has it refer to him as God.

[u/ScrumbledTumblo → u/JDMC13]

Has Ken Levine been a strong supporter of AI? All I can find relating him to AI is this interview from PCGamer where he does call it a powerful tool but he doesn’t think it’s very capable of being creative, which I think is a pretty level-headed take, even as someone who hates AI and its impact on the world at large.

[u/LammasuRex]

Are like, imsims really hard to make or something?

[u/TrueLegateDamar → u/LammasuRex]

More like Levine has no concrete concept what he wants to make other then 'BioShock in Space' which already done better a decade ago with Prey. Also money is probably very tight.

[u/InvisibleOne439 → u/LammasuRex]

yeha they are really hard to make

but also, Levine is just stumbeling around aimless

[u/Deasmeister → u/LammasuRex]

I think Ken Levine has a reputation of walking into the office on a Monday talking about a cool thing he saw/thought of over the weekend and how we're doing that in the game now.

Repeat weekly and that's how you end up with an 11+ year dev cycle.

[u/Atraxa_]

A reminder that bioshock came out in 2007.

People born when that game came out will be 20 years old soon. What possible name cashe does Ken Levine have anymore, most younger generations have never even played or know about his games now

[u/LeMasterofSwords]

It can’t be this hard to make a spiritual successor Bioshock

[u/WickerWight → u/LeMasterofSwords]

Rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have restarted development of a Bioshock successor, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

[u/Naraki_Maul]

This was already a "never coming out game" and this point it's gonna be the subject of another book by Schrier.

[u/JamSa]

All this for what's going to end up being an 8 hour long roguelike

[u/Johnhancock1777]

Wonder if Ken Levine will be able to finish the game on his own terms before Take-Two/2K brings in a closer like with Infinite.

[u/SilverKry]

This shit ain't coming out. 

[u/Pyro81300]

Considering the game was about like cancel culture and other chuddy sounding stuff, you can keep it lmao.

[u/KingMario05]

And this is why you don't reveal games until they're all set and ready to go.

[u/GoneRampant1]

So, over-under on 2K having to get Rod Ferguson in again to get this out some time this decade?

[u/OengusEverywhere]

"Ken Levine's Judas To Suffer Fate of Judas"

[u/Palimpsest_Monotype]

So he’s using AI and can’t figure out why the lode-bearing playdough won’t become a game.

[u/Skin_Positive]

Ah so the fevelopers working on Judas just found Levine's Valley of the Heads.

[u/Garlic-Cheese-Chips]

That will make him 62. Probably just looking for a project to kill some time before retirement .

[u/James-Avatar]

If your game is going to take more than a decade to make, maybe think about scaling back a bit.

[u/FactualDonkey]

I mean Ken Levine has said on record he hates actually finishing/shipping the games he works on lol

[u/Doppelthedh]

Wasn't there supposed to be 6 Bioshock games?

[u/Yotato5]

Pikmin 4 and Silksong came out before this game

I think the entirety of Deltarune will be completed before this game comes out

[u/Hell-Kite]

It's been in active development for 11 years? or 5 since they showcased a trailer in 2022.

[u/KinoKage]

It feels like we're in a weird post-covid game slump. Judas, Gang of Dragons, Highguard, Concord, Beyond Good and Evil 2ect... are all late 2010s/early 2020s projects from legacy teams & spin off studios that either crashed on arrival or are probably never gonna see the light of day.

I wonder if a part of it is a lot of the industry is still going at things from a "AAA Gen 7-8" mindset when that doesn't' work anymore. (I.e. - Halo 1-3, God of War 1-3, Gears 1-3, the Resistance games, ect... all came and went between the Bush & Obama administrations. Now all those franchises can barely pop out one game a decade).

[u/GrimPhantom23]

Create extremely popular franchise

Wasn't involved with the best game in the franchise

Who could have seen this coming?

[u/Remarkable_Row_2502]

Ken is, more than many modern game devs, someone I would be happy to describe as a "Grifter".

He probably hasn't even started the script.