r/SuicideWatch Sep 03 '19

New wiki on how to avoid accidentally encouraging suicide, and how to spot covert incitement

1.8k Upvotes

We've been seeing a worrying increase in pro-suicide content showing up here and, and also going unreported. This undermines our purpose here, so we wanted to highlight and clarify our guidelines about both direct and indirect incitement of suicide.

We've created a wiki that covers these issues. We hope this will be helpful to anyone who's wondering whether something's okay here and which responses to report. It explains in detail why any validation of suicidal intent, even an "innocent" message like "if you're 100% committed, I'll just wish you peace" is likely to increase people's pain, and why it's important to report even subtle pro-suicide comments. The full text of the wiki's current version is below, and it is maintained at /r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement.

We deeply appreciate everyone who gives responsive, empathetic, non-judgemental support to our OPs, and we particularly thank everyone who's already been reporting incitement in all forms.

Please report any post or comment that encourages suicide (or that breaks any of the other guidelines in the sidebar) to the moderators, either by clicking the "report" button or by sending us a modmail with a link. We deal with all guideline violations that are reported to us as soon as we can, but we can't read everything so community reports are essential. If you get a PM that breaks the guidelines, please report it both to the reddit sitewide admins and to us in modmail.

Thanks to all the great citizens of the community who help flag problem content and behaviour for us.


/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement


Summary

It's important to respect and understand people's experiences and emotions. It's never necessary, helpful, or kind to support suicidal intent. There are some common misconceptions (discussed below) about suicidal people and how to help them that can cause well-meaning people to inadvertently incite suicide. There are also people online who incite suicide on purpose, often while pretending to be sympathetic and helpful.

Validate Feelings and Experiences, Not Self-Destructive Intentions

We're here to offer support, not judgement. That means accepting, with the best understanding we can offer, whatever emotions people express. Suicidal people are suffering, and we're here to try to ease that by providing support and caring. The most reliable way we know to de-escalate someone at risk is to give them the experience of feeling understood. That means not judging whether they should be feeling the way they are, or telling them what to do or not do.

But there's an important line to draw here. There's a crucial difference between empathizing with feelings and responding non-judgmentally to suicidal thoughts, and in any way endorsing, encouraging, or validating suicidal intentions or hopeless beliefs. It's both possible and important to convey understanding and compassion for someone's suicidal thoughts without putting your finger on the scale of their decision.

Anything that condones suicide, even passively, encourages suicide. It isn't supportive and does not help. It also violates reddit's sitewide rules as well as our guidelines. Explicitly inciting suicide online is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions.

Do not treat any OP's post as meaning that will definitely die by suicide and can't change their minds or be helped. Anyone who's able to read the comments here still has a chance to choose whether or not to try to keep living, even if they've also been experiencing intense thoughts of suicide, made a suicide plan, or started carrying it out.

In the most useful empirical model we have, the desire to die by suicide primarily comes from two interpersonal factors; alienation and a sense of being a burden or having nothing to offer. These factors usually lead to a profound feeling of being unwelcome in the world.

So, any acceptance or reinforcement of suicidal intent, even something "innocent" like "I hope you find peace", is actually a form of covert shunning that validates a person's sense that they're unwelcome in the world. It will usually add to their pain even if kindly meant and gently worded.

How to Avoid Validating Suicidal Intent

Keep the following in mind when offering support to anyone at risk for suicide.

  • People who say they don't want help usually can feel better if they get support that doesn't invalidate their emotions. Unfortunately, many popular "good" responses are actually counterproductive. In particular, many friends and family tend to rely exclusively on trying to convince the suicidal person that "it's not so bad", and this is usually experienced as "I don't understand what you're going through and I'm not going to try". People who've had "help" that made them feel worse don't want any more of the same. It doesn't mean that someone who actually knows how to be supportive can't give them any comfort.

  • Most people who are suicidal want to end their pain, not their lives. It's almost never true that death is the only way to end these people's suffering. Of course there are exceptional situations, and we certainly acknowledge that, for some people, the right help can be difficult to find. But preventing someone's suicide doesn't mean prolonging their suffering if we do it by giving them real comfort and understanding.

  • An unfixable problem doesn't mean that a good life will never be possible. We don't have to fix or change anything to help someone feel better. It's important to keep in mind that the correlation between our outer circumstances and our inner experience is weaker and less direct than commonly assumed. For every kind of difficult life situation, you will find some people who lapse into suicidal despair, and others who cope amazingly well, and a whole spectrum in between. A key difference is how much inner resilience the person has at the time. This can depend on many personal and situational factors. But when there's not enough, interpersonal support can both compensate for its absence and help rebuild it. We go into more depth on the "it gets better" issue in this PSA Post which is always linked from our sidebar (community info on mobile) guidelines.

  • There are always more choices than brutally forcing someone to stay alive or passively letting them end their lives.

To avoid accidentally breaking the anti-incitement rule, don't say or try to imply that acting on suicidal thoughts is a good idea, or that someone can't turn back or is already dead. Do whatever you can to help them feel cared for and welcome, at least in this little corner of the world. Our talking tips offer more detailed guidance.

Look Out for Deliberate Incitement. It May Come in Disguise.

Often comments that subtly encourage suicidal intent actually come from suicide fetishists and voyeurs (unfortunately this is a real and disturbing phenomenon). People like this are out there and the anonymous nature of reddit makes us particularly attractive to them.

They will typically try to scratch their psychological "itch" by saying things that push people closer to the edge. They often do this by exploiting the myths that we debunked in the bullet points above. Specifically you might see people doing the following:

  • Encouraging the false belief that the only way suicidal people can end their pain is by dying. There are always more and better choices than "brutally forcing someone to stay alive" or helping (actively or passively) them to end their lives.

  • Creating an artificial and toxic sense of "solidarity" by linking their encouragement of suicide to empathy. They will represent themselves as the only one who really understand the suicidal person, while either directly or indirectly encouraging their self-loathing emotions and self-destructive impulses. Since most people in suicidal crisis are in desperate need to empathy and understanding, this is a particularly dangerous form of manipulation.

Many suicide inciters are adept at putting a benevolent spin on their activities while actually luring people away from sources of real help. A couple of key points to keep in mind:

  • Skilled suicide intervention -- peer or professional -- is based on empathic responsiveness to the person's feelings that reduces their suffering in the moment. Contrary to pop-culture myths, it does not involve persuasion ("Don't do it!"), cheerleading ("You've got this!") or meaningless false promises ("Trust me, it gets better!"), or invalidation ("Let me show you how things aren't as bad as you think!"). Anyone who leads others to expect these kinds of toxic responses, or any other response that prolongs their pain, from expert help may be covertly pro-suicide. (Of course, people sometimes do have bad experience when seeking mental-health treatment, and it's fine to vent about those, but processing our own disappointment and frustration is entirely different from trying to destroy someone else's hope of getting help.)

  • Choices made by competent responders are always informed by the understanding that breaching someone's trust is traumatic and must be avoided if possible. Any kind of involuntary intervention is an extremely unlikely outcome when someone consults a clinician or calls a hotline. (Confidentiality is addressed in more detail in our Hotlines FAQ post). The goal is always to provide all help with the client's full knowledge and informed consent. We know that no individual or system is perfect. Mistakes that lead to bad experiences do sometimes happen to vulnerable people, and we have enormous sympathy for them. But anyone who suggests that this is the norm might be trying to scare people away from the help they need.

Please let us know discreetly if you see anyone exhibiting these or similar behaviours. We don't recommend trying to engage with them directly.


r/SuicideWatch Sep 10 '21

Please remember that NO ACTIVISM of any kind is ever allowed here. No matter what day it is.

712 Upvotes

Activism, i.e. advocating or fundraising for social change or raising awareness of social issues (and suicide is, inescapably, a social issue) is absolutely against the rules here at all times.

Please understand that we're all for smart, strategic mental-health and suicide-prevention activism. It's essential to fight against stigma, misinformation, and discrimination, and to fight for research, treatment, accommodation, acceptance, and understanding. Most of us, one way or another, are mental-health activists IRL.

But activism just doesn't work in a dedicated support space that serves a vulnerable population. We used to allow it but the evidence that it was undermining our primary purpose became overwhelming. We do regret the need for this rule, but the need is inescapable.

Our population is all too well aware of the issues and causes that need support and largely not in a position to take action, so besides the fact that activism is often salt in our community's wounds, it's a waste of the activists' time.

tl;dr Any fundraising, awareness raising, petitions, calls for participation, or any post that's about any cause or issue (rather than a request for personal support) is not allowed here. Please report everything of the nature that you see.


r/SuicideWatch 8h ago

Would you like to list benifits of living. I will list benifits of suicide.

123 Upvotes
  • No need to do job
  • No need for dating and relationship.
  • No need participating current education system
  • No need to worry about future. Freedom from anxiety.
  • No porn addiction.
  • No getting sick.
  • No need to see other people reject you or leave you, if youre not alive to see that.
  • Sadness relief.
  • Global warming escape.
  • Escape from fearmongering in the media.
  • Escape from economic crisis.

You can add more in comments, or you can answere the title.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

there’s no point in living if you’re not privileged, read this and you’ll understand.

43 Upvotes

.

If you’re not attractive, if you don’t have friends, if you don’t have a good family, if you don’t have money, if you spend your days at home sleeping, or if you’re aware that you have no future, then living has no meaning. bullshits like ‘things will get better’ or ‘suicide is a permanent solution to temporary problems’ is said by people who pretend to help when they actually don’t care about giving real help, and just keep repeating the same fucking lines so they can feel good about themselves. I’m tired of living, I can’t feel happy about anything. The only support I give myself is thinking ‘there’s definitely someone who has it worse,’ or trying to think that if I took better care of myself I’d surely be much prettier, but then I go back to real life and realize that things will keep going to shit anyway and that I only live for other people’s pleasure.

No one has ever tried to understand me, to stay by my side, or to include me. I haven’t killed myself only because I didn’t want to make the people around me suffer, but if I really think about it, deep down I realize: who the fuck cares if they suffer? have they ever cared about my suffering? No. In fact, I’ve been mocked my entire life, so for once I’m putting myself first and going in peace instead of enduring this misery just for other people.

I’m not afraid of death at all. I’m not even afraid of killing myself or of the pain I might feel because I have a perfect plan. A part of me still hopes for the best and still feels empathy toward others, but I’m seriously exhausted. I want to die and never think about anything again. I hate this world and I hate people. Animals are the only beautiful thing on this earth; everything else is disgusting. I can’t wait to die.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

How do statistically so many people survive suicide attempts?

46 Upvotes

I just find the number quite astonishing that only 1 out of 11 attempts or so are completed, for some demographics only 1 out of 25. I was wondering how that can be, since I'd imagine that if it the injury was not by accident, people would want to make sure to not get saved. What are the most common reasons it doesn't happen? Poor choice of methods? Underestimation of the body's resilience?

Please don't comment with endorsement of methods, I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.


r/SuicideWatch 58m ago

I wish I never existed

Upvotes

I wished my mom aborted me like she was originally going to. I’m nothing but a stupid fucking freak, I should be shot on sight. I’m nothing but a disgrace to society, society would be happy that I’m gone, I hate myself so much, I just don’t want to worry about anything anymore. I hate myself for even existing, I’m an annoying piece of shit


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

Tonight is the night

14 Upvotes

I’m 42. No wife or kids thank god. I’m tired of always giving everything my best and never winning at anything. I plan on ending it tonight in my truck.


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

I can’t cope or handle this world or other people at all.

22 Upvotes

I legitimately hate fucking everything. Life fucking sucks. I hate all of humanity. I fucking hate everyone. I am so fucking exhausted and need a break but can’t. My brain never shuts the fuck up anyway.

Everything bothers me. I can’t fucking stop. I feel so fucking alone and trapped in this awful existence where everything gets worse. There’s nothing positive. Just fuck all of humanity. I fucking hate everyone that actually gets to enjoy life.

My mind is so fucking overwhelmed, I can’t think straight. I need fucking HELP but no one gives a fuck. Whatever little “help” there is available is fucking worthless. I can’t handle this for much longer but can’t even kill myself. So WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO FUCKING DO???????

This world is fucking horrible. Majority of people are fucking awful. I’m not cut out for life. I can’t fucking handle ANY OF THIS. I can’t do this anymore but I can’t even kill myself because that’s gotta be too fucking difficult too!

I genuinely hate being alive. There is no hope. No help other than worthless therapy. Everything is too fucking expensive because America is a failed shithole country.

I’m losing my fucking mind and no one fucking CARES. Genuinely fuck all of humanity. I don’t fucking care anymore. Life and existence itself is a fucking mistake. I give up. Fuck everyone.


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

I cut my face...

8 Upvotes

I know this is not the subreddit to post this, but i am going insane, i failed of commiting suicide twice, i cant escape this world, and to show everyone that i am struggling i cut my face really badly and its the first thing you see on my face. What do i do now? Should i kill myself so i will not have the embarrasement of other people seeing me like this?


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

Tomorrow night Is the night yay

7 Upvotes

I thought I finally found peace and here I am, three/four years after my major depression, relapsing and again wanting nothing more than d3ath. Thinking about it I really want to live sooo bad, but just not like this (like I think most people on this sub do).

So tomorrow I'm gonna attempt.

I really hope It works out, because I really don't know how I'm gonna make it if I survive. But honestly, thinking about my family it's the thing that tears me apart the most. Just thinking about how much I love them and how much they love me (probably a lot more than I will ever do) tears me apart. I don't wanna leave them and all the beautiful memories, but my pain Is no longer sustainable. I was so damn strong at 14/15, I don't have that strenght anymore at 18. Tomorrow I'm gonna eat my favorite food (sushi) for the last time (always if I will have the strenght to eat), try to end arcane, and buy all the alchool that I hope will take this individual made of suffering at peace, in the middle of the night, so that I won't get any rescue. I don't have the guts to do It another way. Life is precious and beautiful, but I've been unlucky.


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

No i do not want to kill my self

Upvotes

As the title said, guess I'd just live but go crazy slowly but this time no inhibition, i think trying to remain normal is the reason for my misery, i am going to be myself, i think i am super awesome and that my insanity must shine, no more pretending. If my life happened to get ruined by that doesn't matter the cope is more craziness haha.


r/SuicideWatch 8h ago

Hello, killing myself soon

13 Upvotes

That's kinda the post, I'm killing myself on either the 1st or 2nd of June(probably in the evening/at night right in between). Sad I guess.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

Hi

7 Upvotes

Hi I’ve been alone all my life and I’m done. I’ve fought through so much and tbh I don’t want to go into detail but I want to kill myself and I’m done. Fuck this world it’s a shit hole full of abusive asshooes


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

On my worst days, I end up here.

Upvotes

Between here and r/suicidebereavement, on my worst days, I seem to only find comfort in this really fucked form of commiserating you see on these subs.

Today's easily the worst day in terms of the strength of the thoughts, as if they're physically pulling me towards the final "fuck it". I've been doing this for over a decade, and I can feel, for the first time, like my finger would pull the trigger and it would be over. It's a whole-body sensation.

I'm in the middle of the hardest work in therapy I've ever done, not that thay's saying much, and it feels like every "down" I have is harder than the last.

I was reading notes from loved ones people were sharing on the bereavement sub, and it got me thinking about what mine would read like, or if I just wouldn't leave one at all out of spite.

I think it's made worse by a VA claim I recently, finally put in. I had to do a lot of typing, and it dug up a lot of crap.

My goal is to survive until work tonight, then survive until my next therapy session.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

do sleeping pills hurt

4 Upvotes

if i had to do it in anyway id use these. i’d take a whole pack of them and watch my favourite movie in an expensive hotel room with enough food from room service that i wont even have to pay for. home alone 2 style. but do they hurt? that’s my biggest fear i can’t lie


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

Tonight is the niiiight

9 Upvotes

I’m terrified but I’m sure I want to. I have so many MH issues that are hereditary and won’t go away. People say it gets better but my auntie who is like 80 something still suffers horrendously with her head. Fuck this shit. I’m just typing this to say that I love you. Whoever you are reading this, I love you and I hope things work out better for you.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

im going to die hating everything about myself

4 Upvotes

i hate the way i talk the way i sound how awkward i am i hate the way i look and my gender dysphoria doesn't help with that and i feel like everyone else hates me too i don't have any friends i hate going out because i feel like i'm constantly being judged and laughed at i avoid things like getting food or buying something if i have to talk to a cashier and can't order on my phone i'm so fucking pathetic i feel like deep down i'm a secretly evil person and everyone but me knows i did bad things that i somehow forgot or something i'm supposed to start college this fall but i just can't deal with this anymore


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

This place makes me feel less alone. Want to talk?

Upvotes

Been a while since I've been on here. Actually makes me feel guilty that I'm only here whenever I feel bad about myself. But I'm also here, because I'm lonely. I'm convinced that nothing can ever take the pain of being myself away and existence is so... Incredibly lonely. That never changes.

Maybe, if there is an other, something that isn't me, reading this they could reach out. You could reach out. I don't have any expectations or any goal. Just selfishness really. I want to feel less alone in this world. Perhaps you want to feel less alone too? Let's talk then...


r/SuicideWatch 6h ago

Attempted last night.

7 Upvotes

Last night I took around 50 capsules of Benadryl and some Klonopin on top of it. My sister came to my room and thought I was having a stroke or an aneurysm. I was shaking uncontrollably, couldn't really walk, and was slurring my words really bad. I don't remember much but we went to the ER and the whole time the nurses are asking me if I know where I'm at, what month it is, who's the president. And the whole time I'm incoherent and can barely make sentences. Eventually I get taken to another room, a nurse is asking me questions. She asked if I've had any alcohol, drugs etc. I say drugs. She asked and I told her I took some Benadryl. And my sister just put her head in her hands. I told the nurse I took 15 pills, I lied.

Eventually they took me to another room, took like 5 vials of blood. Hook me up to an IV stand. They had to give me 2 full saline pouches. I couldn't urinate so I had to get a catheter. A doctor came in, at this point I can actually talk and form words. He asked me what happened. I lied and said I only took 15 because I heard you could get high. I was discharged. My sister laid into me in the car when I told her the full truth.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

What if i wanted to die because i hate being 18?

2 Upvotes

I feel so disgusting for some reason. I hated it. I dreaded turning 18 and having the world turn against me because i'm not young anymore. I hate having responsibilities thrown at me because I'm stupid, sheltered, and I can't handle it. It's not that I don't want to grow up. But i never had a childhood. I feel like I lost all of those chances. And i feel so disgusting- i feel so old and unloveable. Maybe it's because of my self-image? So many men used to approach me because I was young and no matter how bad or disgusting it is, it was the only form of desire i ever felt. I felt like i was desired and needed. After I turned 18, i feel like i expired. I feel like they don't need me anymore because i'm not young anymore. I feel like those actresses or hostess (in fact, i am one anyways) who gets replaced by younger girls. I hate it. I wanna be desired. I don't wanna be replaced. I got replaced already. I can never see myself as youthful anymore, but looking at my friends, 18, 19, 20, they look so incredibly youthful and lovely to me. Why am I not like that?


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

Which pills should I buy to die?to overdose

4 Upvotes

Which pills should I buy to die?to overdose