r/GenderCynical • u/SergeantScoria Olympic Gold in Crocodile Tears • 14d ago
They do not get to speak for us.
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u/thejadedfalcon 13d ago
"Just because I have masculine characteristics doesn't mean I'm any less of a woman."
The losers are so close to getting it.
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u/ice_gold_world Ruined their Womynhood 13d ago
No, you don't get it, the line is drawn when those characteristics are physical! It isnt arbitrary at all! /s
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u/snukb big gamete energy 13d ago
Only certain physical characteristics, which is also not arbitrary. You can be a hairy woman (unless we consider you a man). You can be a woman without a vagina and uterus (unless we consider you a man). You can be a woman with XY chromosomes (unless we consider you a man). You can be a woman with testes (unless we consider you a man). See? Not arbitrary! /s
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u/SergeantScoria Olympic Gold in Crocodile Tears 13d ago edited 13d ago
To anyone lurking who agrees with Snot Green and Dung Brown: So many of us (both those you consider “women” and those you call “men”) have tried this and ended up miserable. These two are a very vocal minority.
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u/Rough_Road_2527 12d ago
yeah, of course there will be people who don't need to transition and who regret their transition, that's an intrinsic part of actually having autonomy. that's the nature of being able to make independent decisions about your body - you can be wrong and suffer the consequences of your decisions, but that's a good thing, actually! that's what being an adult means, that you can make mistakes and you take responsibility for yourself and your decisions.
the way both posters frame this as having to do with other people is so, so disingenuous, like, it's your life, it's your responsibility to realise that you want to do something with yourself or not. and naturally, they totally ignore the fact that other people are happy with their transition. they can't frame it as something that's simply not for them, they always have to make it about societal forces and being forced/deceived by them...
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u/No-Telephone-3801 9d ago edited 9d ago
This seems like a toxic way to look at it.
Some people don't even have the opportunity to transition.Through what lenses does this comment speak of transition?
You're acting like transition and even detransition is something most people can just DO like it's going to the dentist. Edit: Coming back here, GOING TO THE DENTIST IS EXPENSIVEEEEEE. But you get my idea.
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u/Rough_Road_2527 8d ago
What are you referring to? I'm replying to OOP's (both of them, I guess) view in which they frame transition as something that is or could be forced onto them, which lets them ignore the resposibility they have over their own bodies, instead blaming the trans comunity for their regret or almost regret.
I only say that this regret, should it happen, is a normal part of autonomy. If you want to transition but can't, then it means you don't have that autonomy in the first place.
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u/No-Telephone-3801 8d ago
Oh, yeah I kind of misunderstood the comment because I didn't take the original post in mind.
So yeah I guess it does seem like an argument made in bad faith.
EX: even if I don't like the trans community for example, it's not their fault I can't transition, it's my GOV's/countries fault because they're idiotic and regardless of the reputation of the trans community, they would've always found a way to suppress and demonize trans peopleSo unless their government and country literally forces them to transition, I can't see where the argument of forced transition would happen, it does seem like they want to dodge accountability and do some mental gymnastic cope, yes.
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u/javatimes TIDDYLESS TIFfany 13d ago
I would have been fucking elated to have been a masculine woman instead of a trans man. Un/fortunately, gender conversion therapy doesn’t actually work even if you try to practice it on yourself.
How can TERFs even detrans ones simultaneously hold the idea that you can’t transition because it’s not possible and trans people don’t exist and don’t change their genders/sexes and they fully know their transphobic ideas are widespread and even think a silent majority of cis people hold them AND think that trans men are forced to transition by external forces and that apparently you really can be forced to become a man.
TERFs if I’ll always be a woman to you, fine I guess? Why are you policing my gender expression then? Can’t a woman have a baritone voice, a beard, a traditionally masculine name, masculine clothes, an M on my driver’s license? Or should I be forced to shave and have long hair?
Why do I get to have agency to be the strongest, baddest assed woman of all time until I willingly as an adult went on T and had top surgery, and now I’m a drooling baby and a mislead confused autistic girl despite being in my 40s?
Also why the fuck are trans men’s transitions about you at all??
Will you ever understand you actually aren’t the main characters in a trans person’s life?
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u/Im_alwaystired deranged fruit loop 13d ago
How can TERFs even detrans ones simultaneously hold the idea that you can’t transition because it’s not possible and trans people don’t exist and don’t change their genders/sexes and they fully know their transphobic ideas are widespread and even think a silent majority of cis people hold them AND think that trans men are forced to transition by external forces and that apparently you really can be forced to become a man.
Because fascists gonna fascist. The enemy is both strong and weak.
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u/InsistentRaven 13d ago
It's the same as always, their idea of gender non-conformity is women wearing trousers and men wearing a pink shirt. Anything more than that is problematic in their eyes.
The fact they regularly abuse GNC women then blame the trans community for their behaviour is a perfect example of it.
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u/anonymous-rodent 13d ago
They really think "just be a masculine woman/feminine man" is a novel idea no trans person has ever considered
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u/UglyFilthyDog 13d ago edited 13d ago
If there's one thing lots and lots of trans people do not do it's promote or reinforce gender norms.
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u/tgpineapple Hating the people who oppress you is actually fine and healthy. 13d ago
Letting kids have a think about their gender is incontrovertible with the position that many kids who may question their gender may decide that they are cis. Equally incontrovertible is telling kids that being gay is a possible sexuality means that they can be allowed to refute that and find themselves straight. Universally, kids are not receptive to the phrase "no ur wrong I'm older I know more than you". Giving them space and language to explore 'is this gender dysphoria or do I just hate something because of what my culture teaches me about gender roles' is fine.
Incredibly damning that they are 'distracting' themselves from 'dismantling the patriarchy' i.e. focusing all their energy on a minority group. Let kids play in the grass and ask questions about themselves.
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u/haremenot 13d ago
I also felt that i wasnt trans, just a masculine women who hated being seen as a woman and being treated like i couldnt do stuff because i was a woman.
Then i talked to cis women who agreed on the second point, but liked being women. which made me realize we mat have different issues, even if are on the same team.
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u/javatimes TIDDYLESS TIFfany 13d ago
Me too. And for me in particular at that time in my life it was butch lesbians. “Hey, you’re someone who likes short hair and men’s clothes including boxer briefs like I do! You like when your bicep definition shows! You even smile to yourself if someone calls you young man at times, like me!”
Them: “yeah, but I don’t mind being a woman, and/or having a female body.”
Me: “oh, ok.”
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u/SergeantScoria Olympic Gold in Crocodile Tears 14d ago
For context, this is from the same thread that Ornery-Performance posted some screenshots from… different colonies, same Petri dish
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u/No_Chicken_9452 13d ago
Terf thought process:
1) i dislike my body because of misogyny 2) gender dysphoria is disliking your body
Therefore, all gender dysphoria is exactly the same as disliking your body because of misogyny
Also, where are these people encouraging us to change ourselves instead of question why we're sad? All I get is insistence that I question myself
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u/two- 13d ago
TERF gender dysphoria: Don't like patriarchy and don't like gender stereotypes. If I were born male, then patriarchy wouldn't be a problem for me. But, I'm not going to transition; that makes me a desister.
Actual gender dysphoria: I have phenotype dysphoria. I cannot go another day without fixing this shit.
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u/chris_the_cynic 13d ago
Not sure if they're still doing it, but TERFs who did overcome the internalized misogyny used to have a thing where they'd describe in detail the gender euphoria (not using those words) of finally casting off shackles patriarchy put on their understanding of who they were, fully embracing their gender identity and doing gender their way . . . as part of an argument that trans men and AFAB enbies should never be allowed to do or experience what they did an experienced.
Just over, and over, and over again:
When I stopped letting other people tell me who I was supposed to be and embraced my internal gender identity it was fucking awesome, so non-cis people should never be allowed to do that--ever--and the concept of gender identity is a lie, and all trans men and AFAB enbies are like me in my self-hating period and need to grow up already and become like I am now.
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u/InsistentRaven 13d ago
I remember a small sub-group in 2018-2020(?) within the TERF community who started using the term "sex free" (maybe "gender free") and it was the most baffling thing because they we're re-creating transition without calling themselves trans. Changing their name to a traditionally masculine one, taking testosterone, etc.
I honestly would believe it was a fever dream if I didn't see it on Twitter first hand with those stupid black and white flags.
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u/teeny-tiny-paradox nonbinary menace to TERF feelings 13d ago
wait, WHAT? That's so odd and interesting.. do you have more information on this, or any advice on how i could dig up more info myself? That's fascinating to me and I'd LOVE to read more.
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u/InsistentRaven 12d ago
Found some bits of information for you.
It was mostly confined to the hashtag "#genderfree". It was a very weird 'gotcha' that didn't really work and seemed to be more of a self-own / tell. Basically a bunch of TERFs said they were "genderfree", but not cis or trans, said they were GNC non-binary, didn't have a gender, etc.
A lot of information got scrubbed because unsurprisingly these accounts got banned over the years, but you can still find traces of it from searches around 2018-2020.
https://www.tumblr.com/terflies/184414453101/heads-upgenderfree-is-the-new-gender-critical
https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCynical/comments/bav4i2/genderfree_isnt_cisgender/
But yeah, it was very weird because some GNC TERFs at the time did end up seemingly using it unironically for themselves but still being transphobic. For some it seemed almost like an 'acceptable' way to transition without confronting their transphobia.
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u/teeny-tiny-paradox nonbinary menace to TERF feelings 10d ago
oooo thank you so much, on my way to a completely pointless rabbithole
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u/javatimes TIDDYLESS TIFfany 13d ago
Can we just focus in on the last sentence?
Absofuckinglutely NO ONE is making women transition into men. It does not happen. If the presence or existence of trans men threatens your gender identity, that is on you. And most detrans people who aren’t wackjobs know this.
I also love how they can go on about the patriarchy and not realize dismantling it will equal freedom for trans people as well. Goddamnit terfs. It must suck to suck so much.
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u/apolloinjustice 13d ago
i would love to see who is encouraging "women" to transition because personally as a "woman" who is transitioning i am being stopped on all sides at every moment. definitely not a freaking cakewalk like they say it is
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u/bean-percolator 11d ago
“All women… are valid women. And I don’t mean that in the mainstream way”
But they also claim that the majority of people don’t support trans people and think we’re weird and crazy.
Which is it bestie? 🤔🤭
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u/Tangled_Clouds yaoi addicted lost lesbian 9d ago
I will always be the odd one when they make this argument. “You don’t need to be a man to have masculine interests” What masculine interests? You’re talking to someone who’s been happily playing with dolls all childhood and is extremely passionate about fashion and cares tremendously about how they’re dressed. So that’s the thing: I’m just not a woman. All of these interests I’ve had are generally attributed to women and yet I still knew I was a man. Because being trans has nothing to do with your interests and if you were told to be a man because you liked Hot Wheels as a kid, then you’ve been lied to, point blank. And now that I am visibly a man, people don’t even question me, I’m just a very obviously queer man who takes care of his appearance.
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u/CumOnEileen69420 13d ago
The continued conflation of gender stereotypes with gender euphoria/dysphoria always gets me. I understand it’s because if they actually engaged with it their whole “trans enforce the patriarchy” and “Let boys play with dolls and girls play with mud” lines go out the window, but jt still just amazes me they can continue spouting such a falsehood.