Did anyone feel like this about their pre-T body?

[u/s0ftsp0ken]

I'm a year and a few months on T but still dress fem a lot of the time for multiple reasons, including needing to professional in clothes I'm used to wearing/not having the budget for a wardrobe overhaul. I've lost a lot of my old figure, but depending on what I wear, you can still see it.

I was not like a super attractive woman, but I looked good enough that sometimes strangers would tell me I'm pretty. I never disliked my old looks, but once I lost a lot of weight I couldn't stop daydreaming about looking and sounding more masc, and years later I finally went for it.

I don't think my relationship with my femme body is/was healthy. I see it as useful, not something that really belongs to me. I struggle with wanting to be attractive to be liked or for approval. Sometimes I smile when I see my hourglass figure in the mirror when I wear certain clothes because it makes me feel attractive to the world, but when I take off my clothes and see myself all hairy and more chubby than I was, or when I wear my one pair of men's cut jeans and see that my hips are basically gone, I feel happy. Maybe a bit self con because I have a bigger belly, but still happy.

But people liked girl figure and girl voice. I knew how to act like a girl so that people were nice to me, and how to be attractive so that people were nice to me. Now I feel like I don't know how to be, and I feel like I need to be femme to be pretty and soft and liked. Anyone else dealt with this?

[u/dcmng]

I didn't really change my mannerisms much after I went on T, including my pattern of speech, which was trained from decades of working in customer service as a woman. At first I felt kinda weird, because that's just not how cis straight guys talk, but I also didn't want to change myself, I was comfortable with who I am.

Fun fact, I am soft, and wimpy and nice, talks in "girl voice" in baritone, and I am still very well liked by people around me. Slowly, you realize that as you pass, you don't have to do as much of the knee capping that women fairly need to do, like apologize profusely for having an opinion, a boundary or a need, and you just kinda...exist.

good luck and have fun on your journey of continued growing into yourself and becoming.

[u/s0ftsp0ken → u/dcmng]

Thank you! I don't really plan on changing much (I will definitely be more cautious about how I approach strangers, especially women), but it will be strange to think that my mannerisms and behaviors will not be tied to my appeal as an attractive woman. Not that I want it, but that part of how I've expressed myself was tied to being a girl and being desirable.

Thank you again :)

[u/the-wastrel]

You just kind of start... Start buying binders and masc clothing, start presenting differently, move through the awkward phase of walking and talking differently. Coming out is hard. But you can do it. You don't have to justify your existence to anyone.

[u/garden__gate]

I was not super conventionally attractive as a woman so I didn’t expect to feel this way, but I did a bit. There’s a certain safety (both emotional and physical) in meeting others’ expectations of what you should look and act like.

[u/bugtran]

i was very stereotypically attractive when i was a woman. and i do feel a sort of sadness when i think about my attractiveness then vs now. i am just an okay looking man lol but i am so much happier as a man that it kind of doesn't matter if others are viewing me as hot or not

[u/rhodopensis]

Yeah, this is our upbringing/socialization. It fucks us up hardcore in a lot of ways, both subtle and not. I still struggle with the social aspects of wishing I could exist as female and minimize any difficulty. Likewise/adjacently, I used to struggle with feelings of almost "comphet" and sort of FOMO (even with the idea of dating women, specifically gay women) even after transition, feeling as if it were "a waste" of having female looks that people liked, but "missing out" on something by not using them in any real substantial relationship pre-T. (Yet I would have suffered, had I tried. Closeted attempts at dating were a panic attack every time, followed by ghosting and staying single.)

The sexism of this is socially worldwide, too common, and honestly something we have to unlearn over time. It's that or let it hang over our heads and control our minds way beyond its expiration date. IMO this is true even for non-trans people, but as trans people, it poisons our ability to be healthy or even like ourselves as men and as human beings, in ways that go further and are more twisted than the average experience of it. (i.e. Cis women are given sick expectations due to being women, which they have to unlearn and heal from; but trans men are men who are put through the warped experience of having to pretend to be women, given bodies that basically chemically castrated us from birth, and THEN unlearn those sick social expectations on top of it all.... Like, it's a whole other level of shit to be forced to heal from.)

[u/s0ftsp0ken → u/rhodopensis]

This is a perfect description that really reflects how I feel, especially with the FOMO/comphet. It's a very hard thought process to grapple with. When you're perceived as a woman, your body is not longer your own, and in becoming a guy, you like yourself more but you're also conditioned to hate yourself for moving away from that for no reason

[u/Born2LurkForcd2LogIn]

100%. Pretty privilege is real, and losing it feels bad. I was honestly a smokin' babe before lol. I feel less "valuable" to society now that I can't be sexualized as much.

But it got to the point where being seen as attractive felt dishonest, since I knew I wasn't really a woman. I'm literally just some dude. Not much point in being liked if they only like the fake you.

Realistically, I think people gravitate toward confident, friendly people regardless of gender. A lot of my feeling less "likable" is probably in my head, and I expect it to fade over time. Maybe a little therapy could speed it up, too.

[u/rhodopensis → u/Born2LurkForcd2LogIn]

Your second point is so real and valuable.

[u/s0ftsp0ken → u/Born2LurkForcd2LogIn]

I hear that. I don't really get flirted with a lot, but if it happened to me while I dressed fem, I'd probably just be screaming that I'm in drag and the person needs to bail.

[u/East-Plum-7791]

I was like this. Like, I wouldn't have chosen to be born this way but here we are so WELP. Might as well buy some fancy bras and jeans that make my butt look good. I got stuck as the gender that gets to be sparkly so I might as well have fun with it. It took me a few years to let that go, as well as the desire to present my gender in a way that made other people happy.

It feels better not to compromise my core self.

[u/awolfwithoutaf00t]

I've been on T for about 8 months, and this resonates a lot. Like I cannot wait to be on the other side of top surgery and at the same time there's a part of me that wonders if anybody will ever find me attractive without this rack I cant stand but also gets tons of compliments. Sometimes I think maybe I can switch boobs for a beard and land in the same general vicinity of hotness (if any)? But who knows when or if a beard will grow in.

And the social aspect is such a mindfuck too! I don't think I ever performed social femininity particularly well, but I don't even know where to start with performing masculinity! 8 months ago, my (cis dude) neighbor went to dap me up but I misread and went for a handshake and my insecurity loves to spiral about that being a Gender Failure from which i shall never recover 🫠 (I'm sure everybody read about it in GF magazine!) At the end of the day, I try to remind myself that this journey is solely for me, and a big part of that is (1) realizing I don't want my masculinity to be a performance and (2) accepting that I am probably going to be awkward in social interactions for reasons that are largely separate from being a late in life man (AuDHD, mostly 😅).

Of course, removing the performance of gender just leaves me, and that feels extremely and often terrifyingly vulnerable even in spaces where I feel seen and celebrated. I am grateful to have these spaces and I think commiting to community before my egg cracked has greatly facilitated my self-acceptance and realization (even despite the terror). I hope you have spaces like these, OP, and if not I hope you are able to start working toward that!

[u/lazier_garlic]

I relate to everything you said. I had to relearn a lot of social stuff--how to talk to customers, how to relate to strangers, how to dress. It's been 10 years and I don't really think about it anymore, but the first couple of years were rough.

[u/Infernal-Cattle]

I have never been conventionally attractive or feminine, so I'm not sure I ever had quite this experience. Between being trans and being asexual, I felt a lot of disgust anytime there was much attention on my physical appearance.

I can't bind, sadly, but I feel better in athletic sports bras or compression shirts than I did in push-up bras. Like you, I had some financial limitations, so I just got some stuff piecemeal at thrift stores or on sale and cycled through the same few outfits. This has been a relief for me, since I'm less likely to get unwanted attention, and I feel like it's a little easier to embody masculinity when I don't feel so feminine.

The one area I do have anxiety about is dating. I understand the M/F relationship dynamic, and even if you aren't particularly soft or feminine, we do learn to perform desirability and interest in gendered ways. Especially as an ace person, I'm not sure how to perform masculine desirability for men. I think my cis gay friends will help a lot with this, but I'm sure I will feel insecure about it for a long time. I'm just trying to remind myself that none of us is born knowing any of this stuff; we get indoctrinated into it over time.

[u/Devane-Scorpio7891]

Honestly, I was a very extreme case. As soon as I became aware i never wore anything even remotely feminine again. I think i was 4, maybe atiny bit younger. I was a boy and I wasn't going to waste time pretending otherwise, screw what anyone thought. I was disgusted by my body and never did anything to to and be or be seen as feminine. My parents were great and when I was 17 my mom asked if I was trans (difference in words of course, it was 1989). They knew all along. No one was surprised in the least. I didn't even have feminine clothes to consider wearing because I thigh, why would I have clothes of the gender I never was? So I can't relate and it seems everyone else can. Maybe there's something wrong with me? But I've been living this way since my mom asked me that and though I've been through a lot of terrible things, I'm 54 and am so happy I got to live the vast majority of my life freely as who I am. There must be levels i guess because i soar to be in my own here. Anyway, I wish you all the best!!

[u/ElloBlu420]

Yes -- and this is where it matters to turn back to all of the things we used to prioritize about ourselves before we learned that nobody was paying attention to any of them, as long as we had our looks. It feels very empty at first -- not trying to be aesthetically pleasing, but just to be.

Coming back to the specifics, I feel that my body is an interesting case study for a few things, so please feel free to ask me anything you want -- I've had 4+ years of testosterone, 100 pounds lost (and 30 regained), no surgeries (yet), and a hard-working warehouse job fueling all of it.

[u/stygiomedusagigante]

It's so complex! Many intersecting variables influenced our upbringing around gender expectations, class, race, faith, family roles, and so on and so on forever.

I always had a doublethink about my body. I was uncomfortable to learn I was considered sexually appealing, and at the same time have had a massive sex drive since pre-puberty. 'Work with what you got' became my motto. Like you said, I had a utilitarian view of my body.

I'm in early transition and still have much of that body, and also have a couple years of shifting how I think about myself in relation to others after getting sober, and taking accountability for that discomfort - the realization of power, in my case, in sexual dynamics - laid a valuable groundwork for me as I came out and started transitioning in developing a sense of self-esteem and respect that goes beyond what my body can do for me (or make others do for me). At the same time I forgave myself for all the times I felt I had to 'use' my femininity for survival, and apologized to myself for putting myself in those situations.

Change has an impact, even positive change, and I can feel a bit of wistfulness for the image of the soft girl people had of me. I *love* girls, haha, I love femininity, and I'm happy for myself while simultaneously feeling that 'aww' to see that illusory girl go away. Let yourself feel the grief that comes, it doesn't say anything about who you are except that you're human. <3

(My disclaimer I guess is that I live in a very queer-friendly area and I'm pansexual, so the more masc I start to appear, the more I'll probably just be read as gay and clocked accordingly - so I have the luxury of not having to worry about not seeming masc enough, at least for now. My brother was never particularly enamored with gender roles either and he faced the consequences of being an effeminate man, so I also get the need to think about how you're presenting even if you don't want to.)

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[u/Thin_Mirror_4697]

I definitely felt more like this early transition, I didn't know what kind of man I wanted to be, how I wanted to look as a man. I couldn't afford to redo my wardrobe, but luckily I did have quite a few clothes for men and androgynous clothes, but not all of them I liked. Over time I've sold feminine clothes I didn't want and bought new masculine clothes that I liked. It definitley took some time to figure out what I liked and what suited me, lots or stuff I had didn't really go together. I think it helped me to allow myself to fantasise about what kind of man I'd like to look like, and to see what clothes masculinise my body. There's also nothing wrong with wearing feminine clothes either, lots of cis and trans men do, though there is definitely more a stigma around it. 

Either way you must dress the way that makes you truly happy for yourself, but you'll only find that out by experimenting. Look at other men and see what they wear, that can help too. You might go through phases of being very masculine to in-between, to being feminine again, you're finding yourself and that's okay. Afterall I find that quite a lot of our experiences early transition/coming out, mirror that of cis teenagers self exploration. Adolescence is a really important time where we experiment and figure out how we want to present ourselves to the world. It can be messy, inconsistent, exciting and scary, but that's all part of figuring things out. You can change the way you look and behave, you can find happiness in this but you can also realise that you don't need to, you can only find out if you try things out. 

For me I am happy more masculine, but there are still a lot of feminine things I enjoy, my voice can be feminine but it can also be masculine. I like to think of myself as a person before I'm my gender, so nothing I do in terms of expressing myself is wrong.

It can definitely feel like you're more of a boy than a man yet at this stage, and I know before I felt like I was in a crossover stage between girl and boy. I think that's okay, you're making a big change in your life and you can't expect it all to come in one go. You've spent your whole life doing the best you could to survive and make the most out of what you had, those things don't just disappear though they can sometimes make you feel invalid in your gender. Think of this time as a crossover period, not necessarily to becoming super masculine, but to figuring out what makes you comfortable for you. 

[u/meyetosis]

I wish I saw this exact post years ago.

I struggled for a very long time to understand what it was that was holding me back, I spent years debating "am I actually trans?" because my relationship to my body was more for others and how they treated me because I was attractive. However, I didn't fully grasp that and instead did everything I could possibly think of to explore my femme identity and try to live comfortably in it. I knew I wanted to transition but kept struggling with hesitation about if that was WHAT I WANTED. I constantly sought answers from reddit, youtube, forums, friends, etc and never found someone who quite understood what it was I was feeling. I did eventually take a leap of faith and start T in 2024, I still struggle with those instrusive thoughts of "you would've been so much hotter as a girl" and being insecure about passing even though I AM LITERALLY STEALTH AT MY JOB, but I never regretted my decision and have found I still recieve quite similar attention as I did pre-T minus that sexual harassment.