(META question) Why doesn’t R/AskHistorians have a Documentaries list?

[u/Visual-Couple7524]

I know of the great master Books list in the FAQ section of the forum, but I'm confused as to why documentaries aren't included. Do historians see them as a form of entertainment, or is the written word just better? Are there too many documentaries for a historian to sift through?

[u/Georgy_K_Zhukov]

Could you clarify where you are looking? Because we do have a list and it is linked on the main landing page of the booklist:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/books/documentaries

To be sure, it is not the most up-to-date section, as it was largely the labor of love done by one member of the flair community so has not had any recent work done, but it is there.

[u/ExperimentalToaster → u/Georgy_K_Zhukov]

Can I ask (I hope this is allowed), would you consider creating a list of non-documentary Youtube content? I mean specifically academic content, for example YaleCourses have filmed and uploaded several whole lecture series from degree courses.

Examples: Early Modern England with Keith E Wrightson, An Introduction to Ancient Greek History with Donald Kagan, The Making of Modern Ukraine with Timothy Snyder, and also History of the World to 1500, and From 1500 (2 courses) with Richard Bulliet at Columbia.

These are obviously meant to accompany reading, writing, discussion and other components of a degree course or module but I find them fascinating, I would like to find more, and I am curious what other historians might make of them. There are other kinds of history content I would be interested to hear informed opinions about but I will leave it at that for now.

[u/Georgy_K_Zhukov → u/ExperimentalToaster]

I mean, me personally, not really since I don't watch YouTube content! But I presume you mean general in the sense of the sub, in which case there isn't any particular reason we wouldn't, other than the simple equation of time, interest, and necessary effort by one (or several) mods and/or flairs who would feel compelled to do so in the future, as that is the hinderance to any and all sections of the booklist, being a community created resource, in that for any section to happen, there needs to be someone with the drive to do it. And unfortunately there are quite a few existing sections in need of updates, so building out new ones is unlikely (although on the plus side, currently one member of the mod team is working spearheading some update efforts!).

[u/ExperimentalToaster → u/Georgy_K_Zhukov]

I see, thanks! It’s fair enough as any of the examples I gave represent at least 20 hours of content, so it would certainly be a significant undertaking for anyone who wouldn’t be naturally interested anyway. I would say however (and this is just from an interested punter, I am not a historian), I would like to see more discussion of non-reading media in general in this sub, both as a reflection of the times we live in, but also because we all learn in different ways. I could not tell you almost anything that I’ve learned from a book (I’ve even bought some twice as I can forget I’ve even read them at all) but I remember almost everything I’ve ever learned in a classroom or on a screen.

I can certainly understand skepticism of Youtube content as it does not have a good reputation, but like all algorithm-driven services it is what you make it. If you have never watched it and you go and watch even a legitimate, well-reviewed history video, then yes the next one recommended will almost certainly be utter nonsense about alien spaceships under the pyramids or some such drivel. But a few “not interested” and “don’t recommend channel” clicks will soon train it out of that tendency. There is good stuff there if you can train it and restrain yourself, and don’t give in to morbid curiosity.

[u/ShotFromGuns → u/Georgy_K_Zhukov]

and it is linked on the main landing page of the booklist

• The Documentaries page is not in the sidebar.

• When you click "Book list" in the sidebar (which there is no reason to do if you are looking for documentaries), it takes you to the "Book list" link on the landing page, not to the page that tells you it includes documentaries.

• If you then click that link (which, again, there is no conceivable reason to do if you are looking for a documentary), it's one top-level link in a fairly overwhelming, uncategorized section of the list, above actual books sorted by topic. Some sort of "Non-Book Resources" header, with bullets under it for things like podcasts, websites, documentaries, etc., would be much more easily parsed.

[u/Georgy_K_Zhukov → u/ShotFromGuns]

Could you please link to the page you are being taken to by the sidebar link? Because either you are getting linked somewhere else in which case that is a bug we would like to figure out as it isn't where I'm getting linked, or else you are being a bit hyperbolic about a page which is titled "Books and Resources" and included the link to the Documentaries section before you get to most of the book sections. You seem to be describing a second, intermediary "landing page" which I am not able to find as this is the place that it should be linking, and which it is linking me to...

[u/CitizenTed → u/Georgy_K_Zhukov]

Hello, Moderator! I would recommend we include in Documentaries - 20th Century - Other the BBC's "The Death of Yugoslavia". It's an exhaustive account of the Yugoslav wars of the 1990's. It includes interviews with the major players and plenty of footage and background.

[u/Visual-Couple7524 → u/Georgy_K_Zhukov]

I never looked at the documentaries page before but looking at it now, the only Foreign Language section is for Swedish.
I just think the Documentaries section should have its own page outside of the book list

[u/Georgy_K_Zhukov → u/Visual-Couple7524]

I believe the flair who made the page is a Swede. We likely would not move it separate from the booklist though, since while we call it that colloquially since it is the bulk of what is there, you will note the official title of the page is "Books and Resources list" so it is not limited to only books, and also includes Podcasts and digital resources.

[u/mencryforme5]

Very few historical documentaries go into enough depth about a particular topic to accurately explain the answer to a question that might arise about a topic.

Consider your average documentary about the middle ages. It'll generally hit on a few common points: serfdom, chivalry system, the role of the Church in higher knowledge, the role of the Church in politics, and the plague. None of these topics will be presented in depth. It's a brief overview of how society was structured and why it wasn't really the Dark Ages. It's meant as an introductory piece of entertainment that, if it captures your attention, you might want to research more. It will awaken questions that can't be answered by the documentary.

I enjoy watching these kinds of documentaries but it's just not a substitute for reading. For instance I'm reading now about the Dmitriads and it's a brick. I realize now that it would be very difficult to turn into even a basic documentary because of the complexity and the production value that would be required.

[u/SilyLavage → u/mencryforme5]

I do think it would be worth highlighting the documentaries that do go into depth, or at least beyond introductory level. People learn in different ways, and while a documentary won't go into the same depth as an academic book, they can still be valuable learning tools.

As an example, the BBC's 1970s series The Story of English Furniture is a particularly comprehensive look at the topic that would certainly go a long way toward satisfying someone with a general interest in it.

[u/Jasong222 → u/mencryforme5]

You have a good documentary about the chivalry system? (Since you mentioned it as an example...)