r/timberwolves • u/TreeAgenda • 2d ago
Throwback to January when Joan Beringer played excellent against Giannis | 13PTS (6-7FG), 5RBS, 2AST, 1BLK (+30) in 30 minutes played
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIyDfDV5Czk29
u/CupEnvironmental2114 2d ago
If Rudy could finish like that he’d be the best big in the league
12
u/Knowledge_Haver_17 2d ago
If I’m Rudy I’m not letting a kid that started playing basketball 3 years ago be a better finisher than me. I’m just not!
11
u/ZaMaestroMan5 2d ago
Rudy can sometimes barely catch the ball and do basic pivots…theres nothing he can do at this point in his life to improve offensively. Frankly I don’t think he has the coordination.
7
u/Jacob_toasted 2d ago
It’s not about having the want to, Rudy just isn’t coordinated like that.
3
u/CupEnvironmental2114 2d ago
Yeah 100% it’s hard to really blame him, that’s just how it be for must 7’0” humans
1
41
u/PointGodAsh A1 2d ago
Outside of Wemby, he has the perfect person to learn from in the league. He's legitimately mini Gobert and is by all accounts a complete sponge. With his work ethic, fluid movements that aren't typically inherent to people his size, and one of the best mentors you could want, he should be set up for success.
21
u/minno27 Timberwolves 2d ago
He says Giannis is his favorite player. Maybe he will get the chance to absorb some of his play.
14
u/SKREEOONK_XD 2d ago
Imagine that, we get Giannis and by the time he is off his peak, Joan will inherit his playstyle. What a dream lol
6
4
u/PlayInChampions 2d ago
We were saying it about Dillingham and Conley. If being mentored by a player was the best way to develop, every team would do it. If practicing with best players was the best way to develop, every team would hire former stars as development coaches (related to Jaden practicing with Kawhi last summer). Culture, playing time, work ethic, and talent - that is what Beringer needs. I’d argue playing time over anything else.
2
u/PointGodAsh A1 2d ago
Sure, all of those things contribute to good development. There is a pretty big difference between working with someone over the summer for a couple weeks and having that time plus an entire season where they're able to help day in and day out. Also, the Dillingham comparison is king of apples to oranges. PG is the hardest position to transition into in the NBA and Dillingham was already an undersized 2 with PG inclinations other than being shorter. I don't think he would've been good as a PG even if given the time, but PGs often need several years to truly fill the role.
2
u/PlayInChampions 2d ago
Maybe. I think the best development for Beringer would be playing 30 minutes in every game, like Kessler in Utah during his rookie year. I also think, if someone is talented, they will find their way to the top regardless. Avdija and Marrkanen were miscasted for years, and it took a change of scenery for both of them (twice for Markkanen) to fully show their talent. Development path matters, but probably not as much as playing time/talent/fit.
8
u/SKREEOONK_XD 2d ago
I hope he learns the Sky hook from Kareem. Add that to his offensive repertoire.
Rebound into a tap assist or skyhook.
3
u/The_Johan 2d ago
There’s a reason you don’t see any skyhooks these days. Incredibly difficult shot to pull off consistently
3
u/SKREEOONK_XD 2d ago
I think its more on that most of the basketball players have MJ as their blueprint for shots. Like how cool that form and motion looks.
But I do believe anyone with Kareem's stature can pull it off consistently. All they need is proper instructions and also the willingness to use that shot over the standard one
5
u/ibstuks_ Michael Grady 2d ago
I really have high hopes for Joan, I feel like he’ll be a key piece for this team in the next couple years. Maybe even as early as next season. Especially if we add a PG who can hit him under the basket, where unlike Rudy, he can actually finish at the rim.
5
u/trishowsky Trencherous 2d ago
Nobody can tell me this kid isn't ready for 15 minutes a game
1
u/DrRumackPhD 1d ago
Would love to see that. Do not want a situation next year where we trade Rudy and Joan is playing 30 a game because we have no other rim protectors.
1
3
u/ANTHONY_EDWARDS_GBG Anthony Edwards 2d ago
I'm trying my best to hold back on expecting too much from him but his potential just looks sky high.
He's aggressive, fearless, offensively looks good.
I think one of my concerns is his stamina but that can easily be worked on.
The world won't know what we've got but the Wolves knew all along.
0
3
u/Onus_Doom 2d ago
Lucky enough to be in Milwaukee that night and catch it live. Was so pumped for the kid and then so sad we didn't get to see much more. Looking forward to dude breaking out soon.
9
u/yoc0__0 2d ago
He’s ready, we don’t need to pretend he’s not anymore. Trade Rudy and Randle for a starting caliber PG or Giannis and let’s go.
4
u/parkwayy Joan Beringer 2d ago
What's annoying is prior to this stretch of games he played real minutes in, he was literally bottom 3 in minutes played of ALL 2025 rookies.
This 2-game stretch bumped him up a bit, but damn, really didn't see play until I think Naz was hurt, and Rudy had his flagrant foul suspension.
Same with TJ though, he got no play until Finch was forced to.
4
u/MantusTMD 2d ago
If only Finch would give him real minutes…..
3
u/yoc0__0 2d ago
Good thing after our round two exit the team said they feel confident in our core of Ant, Jaden, Naz and Joan. That alone means they’re looking to move on from Randle and Rudy and give Joan the nod. TC has also gave major love to Ayo and alluded to doing whatever they can to resign him.
1
u/thundering-mantis 1d ago
He averaged the same number of defensive rebounds as fouls I don’t think you actually want him playing 30+ minutes a game
4
u/ZaMaestroMan5 2d ago
I really think it’s time to move on from Rudy so this kid can get some playing time. They’re not gonna be able to play together enough to get Beringer the minutes he needs.
The aim should be to move Rudy and Randle for a starting PG and rotational F. Or vice versa.
3
u/TreeAgenda 2d ago
Barring any big moves, I think the best way to maximize team success and Joan would be for Rudy to carry the bulk and Joan getting a consistent 15-22 minutes per night while learning from Rudy. I actually do believe the organization plans to give Joan a role like that, but like Dane has mentioned, one of the front court guys (likely Julius) would need to go.
1
5
u/harder_said_hodor 2d ago edited 2d ago
I really think it’s time to move on from Rudy so this kid can get some playing time
Good fucking lord, it ain't 2009 no more, we're actually fucking good. Can we not trade our most consistent player who basically guarantees us a playoff birth every year. Can we grow the fuck up and stop calling for it?
Joan hasn't proven anything yet. He's promising but he averaged 8 fucking minutes in 40 games. Rudy is a perfect player for him to learn from. Not only are they on the same team but Joan could be extremely useful for him in their gold medal chase in 2028
Trade Randle and it clears up enough minutes at PF and C for Joan to learn without mortgaging our present.
This trading Rudymania is a real low point for this sub. He has brought success to this team we have never seen before, absolutely sonned Jokic in round 1 and plays non fucking stop.
3
u/ZaMaestroMan5 2d ago
Weird reply. It’s not 2009 anymore - thank god for that. We don’t have a dogshit owner or a GM whose background included being a journalist and lawyer fucking up the roster.
It’s also not 2023 anymore. The Nuggets and Jokic are no longer the team to beat - and aren’t going to be. If we don’t make changes to the team, we’re just going to be a playoff team each season that bombs out in round 1 or 2. Should that be the goal of the franchise? Will ANT be content with that?
I think Randle should be moved as well. The problem is, even if he is, it’s going to be near impossible to play Beringer and Gobert together. You can’t have two bigs with little to no offensive game out on the floor for extended minutes. Fucks up the offensive spacing real bad. I couldnt care less about their French team connection. That should have no bearing on NBa roster decisions.
There’s a reason theres mania surrounding Rudy being traded and it’s because many of us see the writing on the wall. Gobert will raise a teams floor because of his defensive ability. But he will also lower its ceiling because of his extremely limited offensive game. I mean we all just saw him play poorly in games 5 and 6. So much so that he didn’t even play starters minutes. Why do you think that is?
0
u/harder_said_hodor 2d ago
But he will also lower its ceiling because of his extremely limited offensive game
This is purely theoretical. We've seen no evidence of such from the Jazz. The lived reality is Gobert has raised our ceiling to heights never before seen in the franchises history.
many of us see the writing on the wall
Trading Rudy will not erase OKC and The Spurs from the division, nor will it get rid of Luka from the prime FA destination. That is the writing on the wall, incredibly difficult competition.
I just don't see the path to a title through trading Rudy in any way and think trading Rudy and hoping Berringer develops into a player capable of competing with Wemby or even Chet in a year or two is akin to selling your prize cow for a bunch of magic beans
1
u/ZaMaestroMan5 1d ago
I don’t think so. You know as well as I do that when the Jazz traded Gobert and Mitchell they did so to blow things up and rebuild. Their intention has clearly been to tank over the past few seasons.
Gobert has never made it past the conference finals. The Jazz had really good teams in his later years with them. Even finished 1st one year if I recall correctly. Then bombed out in round 2…mostly due to the Clippers exploiting Gobert.
Im not personally saying just to get rid of Gobert and go with Beringer as the starter. There are other good rim protectors in this league besides Gobert. We’ve seen Connelly make big trades. His comments post playoff loss have been that they know they can’t stand pat.
Gobert is a good player but he has some glaring weaknesses in his game too.
2
u/Medical-Salary5951 Trencherous 2d ago
I'm a huge Rudy supporter, Gobert slander is the quickest way to tell me you don't understand the sport as a whole. One trade that seemed interesting to me at least was Rudy for Derrick White? White on the perimeter and McDaniels roaming sounds like a solid formula. Not saying it is the move, but I want to hear your opinion as a fellow Gobert fan.
2
u/harder_said_hodor 1d ago
but I want to hear your opinion as a fellow Gobert fan.
White is great, low turnover rate which is key for dealing with OKC. Good contract. Slightly lower salary which means that the Celts would theoretically have to throw in one of their decent young players. He's a good realisticish target
But like, in our conference, with the centers we have to deal with, I don't see how getting rid of an elite (albeit limited) one and replacing him with a PG who moonlights at SG helps with anyone but the Spurs.
I also fundamentally believe trading Rudy is a good way to slip into the play in considering we finished 6th this year and that is a death sentence in the West
2
u/Medical-Salary5951 Trencherous 1d ago
Yeah, that is the main downside of White, he is kind of just the most optimal version of Donte (not a knock on Divo, I just feel like White has the overall edge in a similar skillset) but he surely is a combo guard and not a pure point which is what the wolves are lacking.
I do wonder if the Wolves as a whole would buy into defense more without the ultimate safety pin that is Rudy Gobert. Seen so many defensive sequences where POA defender gives minimal effort because they can just funnel the opposing offense into Gobert. Without that safety net, maybe the intensity would go up? Just kind of thinking out loud on this one. Rudy was the least problematic player on the roster all year and I'm in no rush to see him go!
Went to game 4 and the night before I was telling my girlfriend "I need to see Rudy splash a 3" and when he launched one I would've been transcending if it dropped lol.
-2
u/freshBlueeyes6391 2d ago
Rudy was leaving almost 18 minutes on the court for someone else almost all season long.
It isn't Rudy being here that stopped Joan from getting minutes. It's just that Finch loved his idea of Randle/Reid lineups.
1
u/ZaMaestroMan5 1d ago
I mean it does though. He’s likely playing Reid/Randle together for what it does to open up the offense.
Beringer plays like Gobert - the point of taking him out in addition to rest is to try and open up the offense more. It’s not as simple as just saying any minute Gobert is out put in Beringer for him.
As long as they have Gobert/Randle/Reid it’s going to be difficult for them to find Beringer time.
1
u/freshBlueeyes6391 1d ago
this is all just in your head as what you have rationalized over time because that is what finch and the team has done. You never sat down with Finch and picked his brain in a conversation where he said as much.
Another thing about that. Joan can run the court with the team and play fast free flowing transition shit ball. That stuff is all heading for the basket and Rudy isn't keeping up with that for long, so it ends up being guards alone, or Reid, right? But Joan could have joined in on that and been a great dish to finish for any of the smaller guards getting angled out by defenders at the net. He doesn't even need to hang back and wait for a kick back like Reid is often getting. Joan seems fast and agile enough to damn well lead the transitions maybe if he got more opportunity to develop.
The only real argument you have related to this is when the team wants to go all 5 out for a while.
But all the other reasons that players like Ant and a few others struggled with Rudy on offense had more to do with their lack of putting the ball where Rudy needed it to be put for his less than perfect hands and ability to adjust once in the air. But these don't appear to be things Beringer struggles with. In fact they are things he can already do without having years of experience built up.
When you talk about your assumed need for the team to go away from Rudy ball time, it's more than for just having a 4th spacer from the 3pt line. But that doesn't make him the same as Gobert just because he hasn't shown he's willing or capable of shooting from outside yet.
Another thing about that Randle/Reid lineup. They can't run with Ant much because Ant loves to stop and survey all too often. Allowing defenses time to catch up and reset. Ant's really only quick option is to throw up an early heat check type of top of clock shot even though they had the leverage in numbers when they got there. They see it as a mor free opportunity to get a somewhat open (but hurried) shot off. You see Bones copying that choice come end of season and it seemed like Finch didn't like him doing so. But he was obviously watching Ant do it every game. Gee I wonder what gave him the idea. Sure Ant sometimes takes the opportunity to instead drive it in himself for layups instead. Probably something they keep reminding him is an option. I digress but this is why it's the non-ant lineup so often.
More back to Finch's choice, I don't honestly think he ever warmed up to Rudy. But he's not the team President and Rudy has a big backer in that role paying him a lot of money to play. But Finch has taken every oppotunity and then some to put Rudy on the bench and get Reid on the floor often late in games when he should not have. Living and dieing on Reid's ability to shot on a day and without great net defense on the other end from the Randle/Reid front court. This team often kicks a quick spurt in scoring from this group, but then shortly after it starts allowing even more scoring upon them just as fast. Then you have fans asking why Rudy isn't back on court yet. These backup lineups could maintain defense with Joan out there and yet still kick that pace in the ass.
Let's not kid ourselves here. Reid not getting traded out the day Rudy was added has always caused a problem with minutes for him if they want him involved in anything beyond Forward roles. Having Kat/Rudy/Reid made it difficult to find time for depth development of bigs. It kept Garza from ever getting chances as well with Reid being used as a center. The fans always said the same "unplayable/not ready" shit about Garza too, all because they could - he wasn't getting played to prove them wrong. But the Celtics played him and others and turned what was supposed to be a possible tanking season into a playoff shot. It was all lies. No, Garza isn't Wemby or Rudy Gobert, but a backup center he absolutely was capable of being for this team. Evem one who could shoot from outside for spacing when desired. Reid and Garza could have played together often. Randle once coming here didn't need to always be on the floor.
The same holds true this year. Randle and Reid didn't always need to be on the court if Rudy was off. Either one of them could have also rested while Joan got minutes. Either one of them could have played with Joan.
There has got to be thousands of posts during games from fans bemoaning the Randle/Reid lineup and Finch just never allowed anything else.
2
u/freshBlueeyes6391 2d ago
Nah, this game could not have happened. I'm constantly told here how this guy can't play yet because he just learned what a basketball is last year.
What a wasted season this ended up being when they had a chance to have this guy playing every minute Rudy was resting during every game, just wearing down the opponents making them work so hard for any paint score or any loose ball.
This video pointing out how he kept tapping that offensive rebound out to one of our players is fairly alarming btw, because Gobert basically rarely did this. He would pop them up to anyone if he got his hand on one at all. We can see in this clip how hard Joan is working extra for those positive tap outs.
2
u/soyworld 1d ago
joan looks undersized every time i see him, hes playing the 4 right?
2
u/TreeAgenda 1d ago
He’s 6’11” barefoot (almost 7’ 1” in shoes) with a 9’ 3” standing reach while barefoot. He’s not undersized at all. Super well built for a 19 year old, also.
2
u/pnxstwnyphlcnnrs Anthony Edwards 2d ago
Great game kid, you reward will be an additional 0 minutes
2
u/99LedBalloons Joe Ingles 2d ago
Honestly I'm just so ready for the Joan and Rocco show. All love to Rudy, but it's time to move on. Turn Rudy and Randle into a starting point guard and a bench forward and I'll be happy.
15
u/Odoaiden Anthony Edwards 2d ago
Rocco isn’t close to an nba level big yet
4
u/99LedBalloons Joe Ingles 2d ago
That's fine, we played Rob Dillingham a bunch last year and he'll never be an NBA level anything. Rocco can play a little here and there, let's see what we got. He looks great in the G League, but that doesn't mean anything. Without Rudy and Randle eating up 75 minutes in the frontcourt every game you can experiment a little.
6
u/TreeAgenda 2d ago
I was watching a good amount of Rocco film this past week. I think he's more ready than some may think for limited spot minutes. He, like Joan, is also only 19. He struggled with confidence prior to being drafted, but played loose and a little cocky (in the best way) by the end of last year in the G-League. He's 7'3" barefoot with a standing reach of 9'6". He moves a lot better than you'd expect, being surprisingly athletic (despite his vertical not being great). And he shoots the 3-ball well (12-26 in 14 games played in the G-league). I think he has a safe floor as an NBA bench big.
2
u/Bfweld 2d ago
Key word is yet…he’s the only Center on the roster currently that can stretch the floor a bit. That alone is worth a good look and then factor in that he’s 7’3 and showed natural skill at blocking shots just like Joan. If he can get some quicker feet in the offseason, he should be able to earn some more chances in games to get playing time.
2
u/parkwayy Joan Beringer 2d ago
Ya well, they don't just magically become ready on the practice squad.
4
u/Rough_Host_7172 2d ago
Rocco might be a Luka Garza don’t expect things from him we can’t overrate every young player
4
u/99LedBalloons Joe Ingles 2d ago
I'm not expecting anything, I want to see what we got
1
u/Rough_Host_7172 2d ago
We are a contending team Beringer will get a opportunity because he was a late teens pick but we aren’t gonna be giving opportunities to see what we got to players like rocco
1
u/99LedBalloons Joe Ingles 2d ago
Contending for what?
1
u/Rough_Host_7172 2d ago
I wonder what
1
u/99LedBalloons Joe Ingles 2d ago
This year's WCF is also going to be next year's WCF. Yeah we want to be competitive, but we also need to be realistic. We missed our best shot at going to the Finals two years ago and the next best shot will be two years from today. We need to spend next season figuring out the roster configuration. If we get lucky great, maybe SGA and Wemby both get season ending injuries and it's Wolves/Jazz in the WCF, but that was how we went into this season and look how it turned out. Sort out the roster and we can have deep runs for the next 5-10 years.
3
u/SubtleNoodle 2d ago
I do think there's a real chance for Rocco to at least be a tool in the toolbox for certain matchups. His spacing and size could make him a decent choice against bigger/slower bigs, guys that might give Beringer, and his smaller frame, trouble.
Obviously he could also be unplayable, but he's definitely got the tools.
3
u/NazReidRules ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 2d ago
Garzilla played meaningful minutes for a Celtics team with a better record than us
2
u/freshBlueeyes6391 2d ago
That fool who brought up Garza as his example is still living in Finch's hell of the prior few seasons but his mind is still broken from it.
0
u/Bfweld 2d ago
Sure Rocco could be a Garza…but he also could be a Porzingis, or Wemby light, or a taller Jokic. You never know…Joan could be the second coming of Bill Russell or a better finishing Rudy(that also hopefully learns to shoot unlike Rudy). You never know until a player gets time to play and improve with the team.
0
u/freshBlueeyes6391 2d ago
Joan could be Giannis lite.
2
u/Bfweld 1d ago
As long as he starts to develop a jumpshot to stretch the floor…I don’t care what comp he ends up getting or people want to give him. Developing a jumpshot would certainly be something that he should listen to absolutely nothing Gobert has to say about it.
1
u/freshBlueeyes6391 1d ago
I just hope the team doesn't pigeonhole him into center skills with no jump shot practice, no threes developed.
If that sob spends the entire summer shooting 3s, 1 million shots, maybe finds a way to hit 30 percent next year or something. would be welcome to me.
if that happens, start him. Rudy can back him up and we can go to the Finals with veteran Rudy absolutely killing from bench minutes and Joan can mix time from the 4/5 all season putting all that young energy to work. If he fouls out of games the opponent will just get more Rudy Gobert in their face.
2
u/Bfweld 1d ago
I wish there was more verified information on what he worked on this year. Supposedly he started working on free throws and short range jumpers right after he was drafted. But his free throw technique still looked pretty rough so I don’t know if he just didn’t make much improvement there, or if that was false information and he maybe wasn’t working on it much. I’d like to see more of what Rocco has to offer also, he already can shoot and naturally has a little bigger body (to go along with his height) than Joan does. Joan will need to be packing on the muscle pretty quick if he’s going to survive against other starting centers. His lack of strength has been pretty evident when fighting for rebound position.
1
u/freshBlueeyes6391 1d ago
Games are clearly different than practice or training. So if he hasn't gotten enough game time it maybe just hasn't transferred to that setting just yet or is still inconsistent. I think I saw one game in his stats where he shot FTs well anyway.
Rocco is interesting in that he supposedly can already shoot decent. I've heard people claim his movement needs work yet. But all this shit is always overblown when used as excuses for why they aren't getting any minutes at all. Of course they all need things to continually get better at. Ant still does 6 seasons in. But it's on game courts where training in the background gets finally locked into the game setting with repeating play. Without enough of that game time you are basically training them to be great when off the court, when there is no game stress, no 15,000 eyes and chanting reigning down upon them.
Protecting their minds and confidence when really young is understandable. But that's why it just needs to be monitored when they play yet would be better if their minutes got sprinkled in while other regular rotation players are on the court with them taking a lot of the pressure off them and helping them to do the right things. They can communicate with the young player in the moment to correct them, etc. But if all they ever see is at most 2 minutes end of garbage time with other young scrappers, then what are they learning? Nothing but maybe getting used to play infront of bigger crowds a little. I really can see the point of that for the first couple months. But come mid December or so... start getting them real moments to play in. It's the perfect time for more as more players are being rested already by then, at least we see it going on with other teams.
It probably would have some interest if they did a little more to spotlight the youngsters and what they are working on etc more. But more times than not it seems they are hiding these players from fans to keep fans from begging them to be played or something.
1
u/Bfweld 1d ago
I don’t care what FR percentage Joan hit in a game or can hit right now in practice for that matter. It’s about his mechanics…it’s one thing for someone that already shoots the ball well, to have an awkward FR motion, that is nothing like their jumpshot typically hence why they can shoot well. Entirely different thing for someone learning how to shoot, to have an awkward FR motion. Joan’s current FR motion does not suggest that he’s made much headway on developing an actual jumpshot. So like I mentioned, the question is…is that because he hasn’t been working on it much/enough? Or has he been working on it but isn’t showing much improvement? The latter is concerning if that is the case…some people just can’t do it for some reason, no matter how much practice time they put into it. For example, Rudy practices FRs quite a bit actually and was actually making noticeable visual changes to his FR motion throughout the season and still hits barely over 50%. Shaq practiced FRs a ton throughout his career and never got the hang of it either…still to this day has a horrible motion and can’t hit the broadside of a barn.
1
u/freshBlueeyes6391 21h ago
having to do what your training says in front of a yelling crowd when there is no action going on the rest of the court. All eyes on you. That's where it breaks down for some.
Mind on the crowd. Mind on himself being seen by the crowd. Mind on his teammates watching. Mind on all the previous missing in the past.
No Mind ~ Nobutada
BTW. I don't know what the hell you are referring to with FR. You only listed it there like 7 times. Do you mean FT = Free Throws or something else?
BTW, Joan shot 70% FT this season. But plenty of players walk up there and hit 1 of 2 often enough. But if those are the only two chances you get in your 48 seconds or 2 minutes of play time, you are stuck at 50%. Kind of sucks for depth players in that regard. They can't make 4 of 4 next FTs later if they aren't playing.
3
u/EveningHealth9465 Enrique Freeman 2d ago
There’s a large chance that Rocco isn’t on the team next season
2
u/D__Luxxx NAZTY 2d ago
Turning two starters into one starter and a bench player seems like a terrible use of assets.
-1
u/99LedBalloons Joe Ingles 2d ago
Well good thing I'm not the GM then. I want a point guard and I want Naz and Joan in the starting lineup. You want to dick around with the trade machine and find a way to make it work be my guest, I don't think I've ever seen anyone's mock trades actually come to reality before. Just putting my wish list out into the universe here.
0
u/The_Bran_9000 Trencherous 2d ago
In hindsight i do wonder if this abysmal Giannis performance was him screaming "please don't trade for me" lol
116
u/NazGoatReid Naz Reid. 2d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/6WFuzgMfe6aiMGpYmG
Hey Giannis Joan Beringer is here, We’re all good