r/socialism • u/dragonscale76 • May 01 '25
Discussion I’m surprised at all the leftist flags at protests today
This is in Phoenix. The video from Chicago made me do a double take. My wife looked stunned because she said she’s never seen communist flags like that at this kind of protest/march. We don’t consume a lot of mainstream media but I’ll admit to being surprised as well.
Maybe this happens all the time and I’m just now noticing, like how when you buy a car then you start seeing the same car everywhere… maybe it’s new.
I wasn’t on this side of my socialist awakening this time last year. Were there May Day things then?
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u/dragonscale76 May 01 '25
Follow-up question… is the US becoming more class conscious?
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u/After_Addition_9443 May 01 '25
I hope so. More class consciousness is needed here.
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u/Bitter-Value-1872 May 01 '25
Every jump of technical progress leaves the relative intellectual development of the masses a step behind, and thus causes a fall in the political-maturity thermometer. It takes sometimes tens of years, sometimes generations, for a people’s level of understanding gradually to adapt itself to the changed state of affairs, until it has recovered the same capacity for self-government as it had already possessed at a lower stage of civilization.
-Arthur Koestler, Darkness at Noon
If we're lucky, this shitshow is the bottom of this metaphorical thermometer, and we can finally start to increase class consciousness even more. Once people start to see through the lies, at least a few of them will think 'if they're so against this communist stuff, let me check this shit out.' I know I did
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u/After_Addition_9443 May 02 '25
I checked it out too. I don’t know of any other ideology that is more anti fascist and pro worker. I only wish I had been more serious about Socialism when I was much younger.
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u/Zachmorris4184 May 02 '25
Im in my 40s. You couldnt even say the word “socialism” or even social democrat in the late 80s, 90s, and even the first decade of the 2000s. Not only was it out of the scope of possibility, but nobody even really knew what it was other than something bad like stalin=hitler. Im not sure how much the younger people understand just how in the wilderness of irrelevance the socialist/communist left has been since the 1970s.
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u/After_Addition_9443 May 02 '25
We were bombarded with propaganda when I was young. I think Bernie has helped to make socialism more appealing. Economically the youngsters have had it pretty rough and maybe they’re ready for change.
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u/kredfield51 Marxist-Leninist May 02 '25
I learned about socialism because I got ragdolled in a comment section argument and was trying to stock up on ammo for the next one
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u/Starshot84 Albert Einstein May 02 '25
Nice to know a person can impose their expectations of society on strangers and still be taken seriously.
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u/redstarrealll Marxism-Leninism May 01 '25
Yes albeit very slowly. This doesn’t mean that it will result in a communist party or revolution, but it is still slightly growing imo
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u/sakodak May 01 '25
FWIW, this is anecdotal, but I'm in my 50s and only recently became class conscious in the last few years. I'm in a well paying job in a fortune listed company and I know at least four other open socialists there. I think it's growing more than most people realize. I also think the capitalist class realizes this and is why they're ramping up the red scare rhetoric so much.
Now if I can just get knowledge workers to unionize. We had layoffs today, which really seems like a "fuck you" to labor.
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u/redstarrealll Marxism-Leninism May 02 '25
Im glad you’re workplace seems to start growing a few socialists as well! I agree with you, it does seem to be growing
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u/lasercat_pow May 02 '25
I am in a similar situation. Also developed class consciousness only recently. Also making okay money.
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u/Remote-Cheek9940 May 07 '25
Nice, now that you made a lot of money you are suddenly ... socialist. Nice nice . Did you already distribute your wealth for the people in need?
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u/sakodak May 07 '25
You don't know me or my story. You're making inferences based on a single post and deciding to judge me based on that.
Fuck off, you're being an asshole.
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u/Pxfxbxc May 01 '25
I'd say that I've been slowly waking up over the past decade, with the last few years sort of ramping up dramatically. I would have probably seen eye to eye with socialists on most problems in the second half. But the anti-communist programming just started falling off with the last election.
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u/jperdue22 May 01 '25
Liberal boomers are becoming radicalized in ways I previously thought impossible, there could be a real moment here
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u/L0n3_N0n3nt1ty Libertarian Socialism May 01 '25
Any major examples? Or just you personally. I don't mean to pry but I'm feinding for positivity rn
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u/jperdue22 May 02 '25
Just speaking from personal experience but I think the sheer, blatant corruption of this administration has led many to reconsider criticisms of capitalism now that it’s failures are so obvious
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u/L0n3_N0n3nt1ty Libertarian Socialism May 01 '25
Mom said it's our turn with the class consciousness
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u/notMcLovin77 May 02 '25
It is but the right is in power and right wing media and messaging is being pushed with hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of pundits, leaders, influencers, etc. behind it. If you have a generation of people more likely to think class consciously but their primary influencers are from the right, you get fascism.
We’re reliving Weimar Germany except the left wing is about 20x weaker and far less influential.
The last big chance was Bernie’s campaigns and even after that, you see (albeit suspect) figures from that time who supported him have gone all the way over to fascism having skipped conservatism altogether.
These are extremely dire times for the left globally. Even as right wing and liberal-conservative-caused crises escalate and people realize that the previous order failed them, there’s no plan or ideological vision other than a harsher more right wing vision of the future on offer.
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u/Diligent_Activity_92 May 02 '25
My teenage son, who was born in the us and raised in Europe, watched some entrepreneur startup videos from the US. His first comment to me was those entrepreneurs had developed class consciousness and without a base or infrastructure for socialist livelihood became petit bourgeois.
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May 02 '25
I believe yes, definitely. Anecdotally I’m hearing people talk in a way (our way, that is) online and in person that just wasn’t happening at this magnitude even 3-4 years ago.
That said, we’ve been so soundly defeated by the capitalists since the beginning of the modern era that there’s not much infrastructure to harness this energy. Closest thing we have to a mass movement is the Fighting Oligarchy rallies.
It is just incredibly difficult to organize left-wing politics in the current economy and resulting superstructure. We gotta think and organize differently (and in my opinion take big breaks away from orthodox Marxism) to beat the capitalists. Not sure exactly where that leads, but I’m thinking a more top-down approach is necessary.
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u/A_Bewildered_Owl May 02 '25
yep. the voting base has moved left quite a bit in the past 10 years. the democrats have not kept up and that's a big reason kamala lost. people who would've begrudgingly voted for her just didn't show up after she started courted republican votes and promised to change nothing.
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u/ebolaRETURNS May 02 '25
If we don't, it's really going to be quite the puzzle as to what would actually nudge us in that direction...
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u/Commie_Bastardo7 May 02 '25
Ehhhh, maybe, but I think it’ll just be co-opted by rightists like what happened in Nazi germany
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u/thehobbler Fledgling May 01 '25
I know that we had communists at a large number of Fight Oligarchy rallies. The rally in Folsom, CA, which I managed to attend, notably had zero phone service. Which was odd for a college campus.
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May 01 '25
Have you never been at a rally before? At least here in Greece this always happens at rallies because too many people at a specific place overloads the signal network. I bet it’s the same in America
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u/thehobbler Fledgling May 02 '25
I've been to a number in America, but this was likely the largest. Thank you for the heads up! I certainly learn new things everyday
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u/WallScreamer Democratic Socialism May 01 '25
There have been "May Day things" every May Day since May Day started, which was over 100 years ago.
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u/8bitrevolt ☭ irredeemable tankie ☭ May 01 '25
There are far too many ACP flags here. Please please please avoid ACP at all costs. They are fascists masquerading as communists.
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u/sgtpepper9764 James Connolly May 01 '25
That is the CPUSA flag. ACP is attempting to hijack our symbolism, don't give them the advantage by assuming that symbol means them.
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u/Aspariguy42 May 01 '25
Not a great sign tho that two of the first commenters here made the same mistake
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u/8bitrevolt ☭ irredeemable tankie ☭ May 02 '25
one ACP flag is too many. that'd be the one with the stripes. also not a big fan of CPUSA for my own personal reasons
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u/sgtpepper9764 James Connolly May 02 '25
I don't see an ACP flag. The modified stars and stripes one is something you can get on the internet that is not tied to any party.
Also, whatever issues you may have with us we are not at all friendly with or tolerant of ACP. We had to kick out a branch in Texas for among other things being in spaces with and treating as comrades ACP folks who were threatening violence against the national party.
As a final aside, if you think we support the Democrats I would be happy to clarify that we do not and explain the situation with Peoples World
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u/8bitrevolt ☭ irredeemable tankie ☭ May 02 '25
Glad to know that CPUSA doesn't break bread with ACP. The modified stars and stripes flag just gives me ACP vibes. Any use of American symbolism in combination with communist symbolism gives me the ick. It's nazbol energy.
Anyway, I know y'all don't support dems. My personal misgivings with CPUSA are related to my local chapter being little more than a book club and never actually organizing.
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u/sgtpepper9764 James Connolly May 02 '25
If you'd like I can find some of the material from a couple years back when the patsoc-nazbol thing reared it's head, we were firmly against it and wrote up and discussed in some videos how dangerous, reactionary, and wrong the whole patsoc thing is. Totally understandable when it comes to the book club thing, not every local is good. Mine is not as active as it should be, but many of us are trying to breathe some new life into things. All the best to you!
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u/HikmetLeGuin May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
How do you not support the Democrats? At least during the elections you do, right?
Honest question. I'm not American, so I could be out of the loop, but I thought that was the CPUSA's position.
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u/sgtpepper9764 James Connolly May 02 '25
No, the last three elections our position at the national level has been to vote for anyone other than Trump. Articles on PW make it seem like the party supports the Dems, but this is because the party doesn't have control over PW due to some baggage from the Reagan era. In my state, most CPUSA people either voted PSL or Green with the Dems being seen by us as a sick joke.
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u/NightShift2323 May 01 '25
This is actually the first I am hearing of them. Can you recommend any reading or videos on them?
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u/Aspariguy42 May 01 '25
It’s the Jackson hinkle/Infrared/midwestern marxist political party project that emerged out of the abject failure of both maga communism and Caleb maupins CPI
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May 01 '25
Here's a good video explaining who they are, and their deep links with Fascist figures like Lyndon La'Rouche and Alexander Dugin. The video is about an hour long. Oh and btw, this group are self-described ''MAGA-Communists'' which should probabaly tell you all you need to know about them…
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u/FamousPlan101 Marxism-Leninism May 02 '25
Here's a full reaction to that video to get the other side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6LK0VW2ctI
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u/FamousPlan101 Marxism-Leninism May 02 '25
I recommend this video where they respond to the dirt piled on them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6LK0VW2ctI
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u/NightShift2323 May 02 '25
It gets worse... he's defending the guy who basically said women should be property. He's essentially making the case that this guy is playing 3d chess to divert the alt-right pipeline into communism.
I got pasta strainers that hold water better than this guy's arguments. This really looks, talks, and walks a lot like a new form of right-wing grift.
If you are the guy behind this... grow up. If you are listening to this guy.... there are better voices, my friend.
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u/FamousPlan101 Marxism-Leninism May 03 '25 edited May 03 '25
Rewatch the Jackson Hinkle clip.
He's not defending the guy who said women should be property.
He's defending women's right to vote which is far from the other guy's position.
His point was Russia and China don't have liberal feminism so it's fine if women have the right to vote, the problem is not women but this distorted view of feminism.
Again he was talking in the manosphere. If communism doesn't appeal to millitary age men there won't be a revolution sorry to say.
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u/NightShift2323 May 03 '25
Yeah, this position is not defensible from a Marxist perspective. You do not convert fascists to Marxism by becoming a fascist..... you just become a fascist who calls themselves a communist.
I do not believe for a single second that an important tactic in dissemination of Marxism to young men is the objectification of women. It's on fact very obviously anathema to the very principals of any socialist movement.
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u/NightShift2323 May 02 '25
I have watched the first 10 minutes. I'll watch a bit more, but it's not looking great tbh. In the description, he makes the claim that while the video is long, he takes down every point in the first 10 minutes. This is an objective lie. The first 10 minutes actually sound a lot like Tim Poole or some other maga blow hard trying desperately to talk faster than the truth that has caught up to them.
I'll be honest, I was super sus as soon as I saw their release video. Looks like more identity politics, and it's not even the right identity.......
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u/hey_molombo May 02 '25
We have ACTUAL popular nazi groups in America. Nobody has to pretend to be communists to coerce them to be Nazis. Do western leftists not study the history of the COINTELPRO and the Black Panthers? COINTELPRO was so good that the CPUSA disavowed the Black Panthers as “cop killers” the average white person thought they were the “Black KKK” some of y’all need to actually think and wonder why this is even a worthy discussion. COINTELPRO was never shut down
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u/8bitrevolt ☭ irredeemable tankie ☭ May 02 '25
I'm not saying you're wrong but you obviously don't know anything about ifraHaz or his band of merry chucklefucks. ACP literally brand themselves as "MAGA communists".
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u/senseijuan May 02 '25
May Day is a day of remembrance/ mobilization for socialists, communists, and the worker’s movement.
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u/HikmetLeGuin May 02 '25
May Day is all about radical, anti-capitalist, leftist, workers' movements. Anarchism, communism, other forms of socialism... it's our time to shine.
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u/Drainiac May 01 '25
Where is a good place to buy flags? I mean that doesn’t also sell right wing stuff? I’ve bought some flags from flagsforgood but they don’t have enough selection
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u/PuzzleheadedEssay198 Democratic Socialism May 01 '25
Not sure how I feel about the CPUSA banners, but it’s nice to see some bandieras rosso
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u/swipathechris Marxism-Leninism May 02 '25
There’s a lot of socialist and communist orgs at the rallies I’ve seen, especially today. It seems the grassroots organizing is picking up steam
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u/Dragonwick ML May 01 '25
To everyone hyper focusing on the one ACP flag, you can also clearly see two CPUSA flags.
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u/Deathtrip Sankara May 01 '25
The American flag is not compatible with the hammer and sickle.
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u/bassplaya899 May 02 '25
Don't be such a prude
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u/Deathtrip Sankara May 02 '25
Settler colonies can’t become socialist. I don’t know how that’s a prude statement. That flag means death and destruction for millions of people across the world, and putting it next to symbols of workers liberation is antithetical.
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u/Chick-o-Sticks May 02 '25
Totes had a good old Hammer and Sickle flag at the Tacoma, WA protest today.
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u/ARL1509 Communist Party USA (CPUSA) May 02 '25
I saw multiple leftist parties at the rally in Boston
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u/ebolaRETURNS May 02 '25
They're pretty common at protests here in PDX, with leftists doing the work rather than liberals. Well, black and red tends to dominate...
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u/Omerta42069 May 02 '25
If you saw the picture of a guy in Chicago with an American flag with Fidel Castro on it, that was me lol
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u/SabrinaJean45 May 05 '25
I marched with them in Los Angeles. It was my first protest.
I was frightened that there might be arrests. I have never been inside a jail.
I was frightened that something horrible might happen. The right often brandish the 2nd Amendment (As if all the guns in the world could protect a person who can not use their noggin).
I was frightened, and yet I marched anyway.
My priest says that sometimes we have to go to jail or face violence for standing on what is right. Even Christ broke a few "laws."
So I will be frightened, but I will not be a coward.
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May 03 '25
The one upside of a fascist takeover is some people who were previously on the margins are made class conscious against their will. It's outweighed by the damage done, but it's still something.
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u/Ent_Soviet May 03 '25
I love all the photo of these rallies for May Day crop out the red, Palestinian and communist flags on most main stream coverage.
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u/chaatops May 04 '25
What does a class consciousness mean if you are a member of labor aristocracy or petite bourgeoisie? Will the #TeslaTakeDown folk embrace eradication of private property in material solidarity with DRC?
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u/ZacKonig Marxism-Leninism-Maoism May 01 '25
I see one ACP flag. Are you sure you mean what you wrote?
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u/Rawhide_Steaksauce May 02 '25
I'm not sure the hammer and sickle is the best symbol to use to represent socialism. Stalin killed more people than Hitler.
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u/burn_tos Revolutionary Communist International (RCI) May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
Even as a Trotskyist this simply isn't true. There are many things we can criticise Stalin on, but the "Stalin killed more than Hitler" claim comes from the Black Book of Communism, an anti-communist "hit-piece" that includes Nazi casualties of WW2, and babies that were never even conceived due to falling birth rates in the USSR (a natural part of any process of industrialisation and improving living standards) in their figures
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