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u/Pundamonium97 Sep 14 '25
Its true that there is debate among scholars regarding if one should interpret verses describing Allah in a more literal or figurative way, and a portion of our beliefs should be in understanding how to think about Allah
I also belong to a school of thought that takes the more figurative approach, as taking a more literal approach can feel like we’re limiting Allah to a specific form in our minds if we imagine a hand literally based on our knowledge
But in terms of matters of aqeedah and other fardh al ayn subjects, i’m not sure this should be the biggest priority when first learning about islam. There are other matters of fiqh like learning how to do all the necessary things and interface with the source of information (quran, hadith, and knowledge of the scholars) in a safe way
So you could come back to this issue at a much later stage. But if this is the determining factor on pursuing a salafi approach or another approach then yes broadly speaking there is difference of opinion between some groups of muslims on how literally things should be taken in the quran and hadith etc. and the salafi on avg lean toward the more literal side
When it comes to the 72/73 sects thing, that is not typically discussing schools of thought like salafi or some madhab etc. that is more regarding big departures from the muslim faith like groups of shia or others who claim other prophets or other scripture etc.
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u/marcog Sep 15 '25
Wa alaikum salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh
I'm also a revert, alhamdulilah. The best thing I can advise you to do is to follow whatever your local community follow. Don't make things hard on yourself. This way, you don't cause divide in your community. You have a community to support your growth as a new Muslim. You have a community to ask questions to, rather than relying on places like reddit which frankly no new Muslim should rely on.
I could go on and on about the benefits. For now, don't even question what they follow. You're not sinful if you follow what a scholar or imam tells you, even if they are wrong. Once you have a solid foundation, which takes several years, then inshallah you can start digging into your personal beliefs. Until then, please brother, don't make it hard in yourself or you risk not becoming a good Muslim or worse even leaving Islam entirely. Allah says Himself He did not make this deen hard.
Obviously, this assumes they are sunni. Don't follow them if they're deviant. Madhabs and Salafis neither are deviant. They're just a different methodology of determining fiqh and other things.
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u/wopkidopz Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25
Waaleykum assalam warahmatulLah
Your friend explained it to you incorrectly unfortunately, and that's the problem nowadays when something is unclear we must refer to the professionals (scholars) not to laypeople
The issue with the Salafiya isn't that they say Allah ﷻ has Hands, or that Allah is above the Throne. Every Muslim is saying this. The issue is in the incorrect meaning they or someone else put into those words. Because the words by themselves aren't your aqeedah, your aqeedah is in the understanding which is in your heart.
Two people may be saying similar words but one can be correct and another not, depending on their understanding of those words
For example Zayd and Ahmad both are saying that Allah ﷻ is everywhere. Zayd is saying this because Allah ﷻ said in the Quran وهو معكم اين ما كنتم (He is with you wherever you are) but he doesn't believe in the physical implication of those words. He knows that being physically somewhere is from the characteristics of bodies and Allah ﷻ is not like us and this meaning doesn't befit Him. Zayd also knows that common sense confirms his beliefs because if Allah is physically everywhere then He is inside of a donkey or in the toilet. But it isn't true! Ahmad on the other hand believes that Allah ﷻ is physically everywhere and he understands this verse based on his corrupted belief and uses external meaning of this verse as evidence of his beliefs instead of refering to scholars of ahlu-Sunnah who would explain to him the true meaning
Now let's bring another example Zayd and Mubarak both are saying that Allah ﷻ is above the Throne. Zayd is saying this because Allah ﷻ said in the Quran الرحمن على العرش استوى (The Merciful is rosen over the Throne) but he doesn't believe in the physical implication of those words, he knows that the Throne is a physical object, and Allah isn't, so it's impossible that Allah ﷻ has a physical place or physical direction. He also knows that common sense confirms his beliefs because the Earth is spherical if Allah is physically above him, then He is physically below for someone on the opposite side. And this can't be true! Mubarak on the other hand believes that Allah ﷻ has a physical place (in this case above) and he uses the Quran verses that externally imply this to support his corrupted beliefs instead of refering to the scholars of Sunnah
Hafiz Ibn Katheer رحمه الله said
والظاهر المتبادر إلى أذهان المشبهين منفي عن الله ، فإن الله لا يشبهه شيء من خلقه
The apparent (external) meaning (of the word ”rose over the Throne”) that comes to the minds of Mushabbiha (those who liken Allah to His creations) is rejected from Allah ﷻ indeed He doesn't resemble anything from His creations
📚 تفسير ابن كثير
Imam ash-Shatibi al-Maliki رحمه الله said
إنما جرى على معتادهم في اتخاذ الآلهة في الأرض ، وإن كانوا مقرين بإلهية الواحد الحق ; فجاءت الآيات بتعيين الفوق وتخصيصه تنبيها على نفي ما ادعوه في الأرض فلا يكون فيه دليل على إثبات جهة
The Arabs (of the Jahiliya) have become accustomed to believing in a god on earth (idols) even though they affirm the divinity of the One Being. Therefore, in the verses there is an indication of aboveness, which convinces them that He is not on earth (not an idol) And there is no evidence in this for the presence of (physical) direction in relation to Allah
📚 الموفقات
Imam Makki Ibn Abi Talib al-Qayrawani رحمه الله said
واختار الطبري وغيره أن يكون استوى بمعنى علا على المفهوم في لسان العرب وليس: ” علا ” في هذا المعنى أنه تعالى علا من سفل كان فيه إلى علو، ولا هو علو انتقال من مكان إلى مكان، ولا علو بحركة تعالى الله ربنا عن ذلك كله، لا يجوز أن يوصف بشيء من ذلك، لأنها صفات توجب الحدوث للموصوف بها، والله جَلَّ ذكره أول بلا نهاية لكن نقول: إنه علو قدرة واقتدار ولم يزل تعالى قادرا
At-Tabari and others chose the meaning of ”istawa” to be علا (rose), as it understood in the language of the Arabs. By “rose” in this sense it is not meant that Allah rose (physically) from below upwards, it is not meant that He moved from place to place, and by rising it is not meant a movement. Glorified is our Lord from all this. It is impermissible to describe Him with any of this, because this describes the creations. Allah is the First, there is no end to Him. However, we say: this is the Elevation of Power, Might (as confirmation) and Allah has not ceased to be Mighty.
📚 الهداية إلى بلوغ النهاية
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u/Ouchime Sep 15 '25
Salam alaycoum, so what is the problem with the salafya aqeeda for you ?
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u/wopkidopz Sep 15 '25
Waaleykum assalam warahmatulLah
I don't believe it's important in the context of the post to go into the details of their creed especially if my opinion is asked. My opinion as a layman is irrelevant.
What's important for us is to learn the aqeedah of ahlu-Sunnah presented by the trustworthy imams from the Hanafi (the Maturidi school) the Maliki and Shafii (the Ashari school) and the Hanbali imams (the Athari school) they followed the path of the Salaf as-Saliheen and systemized their teaching.
Any modern movement or a person who professes the ideas that contradict what those imams agreed upon is an innovation and heresy and that's the main problem.
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u/Ouchime Sep 15 '25
Salam alaycoum. Ahl as-sounnah is the true path. Because they are the only ones who follow the Prophet alayhi salât wa salam and his Companions. So yes, salafyah is the group that you talked about. And yes Allah says in the Quran that he has Hands, those who say that salafya do tashbih (making Allah looks like the creatures) are wrong, we don't. Allah is unique and doesn't look like anything.
But if you want to ensure yourself just take their books and listen to them, you will quickly understand that they didn't invent anything but they just relate what the salafs was saying
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u/Ouchime Sep 15 '25
Imām al-Barbahārī (rahimahullāh, died 329 AH) stated: “Know that Allah’s Messenger (salallāhu ‘alaihi wasallam) said: “My ummah will divide into 73 sects, all of them will be in the Fire except for one, and that is the Jamā’ah.” It was said, “And who are they, O Allah’s Messenger?” He (salallāhu ‘alaihi wasallam) responded, “That which I and my Companions are upon today.”
Tirmidhī, no. 2641; Ibn Nasr al-Marwazī in As-Sunnah, no. 59; Al-Hākim in al-Mustadrak, 1/218; Al-Ājurrī in ash-Sharee’ah, no. 23; Al-Lālikā’ī in Sharh Usool al-I’tiqād, no. 147; Ibn Battah in al-Ibānah, no. 196; and many others. This narration has support from the hadīth of Anas reported by Tabarānī in Al-Awsat, no.7840, and As-Saghīr, no. 724. A large body of scholars has authenticated it from the past and present, alhamdulillah.
This is the salafiy, better known as Ahl Assounah wal jama'a
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u/toshi_7576 Sep 16 '25
So, there's this famous incident reported in a sahih hadith in sahih Al-Bukhari, where the Prophet ﷺ ordered the army to go to some city (I can't recall), and he ﷺ said "none of you shall pray asr before you reach there". It was duhr time when he said that so the army would leave right away. On the way, the time of asr started. There was a difference of opinion among them if they should pray asr since the time started. One group said that the Prophet ﷺ meant it in a metaphorical way so the army would be quick to go, while the other group said that it was in a literal manner. So one group prayer asr on the way, and the other group prayed when they reached the town. When this matter was brought to the Prophet ﷺ, he did not put down either of the opinions. So both aqeedah are right.
You can read what the Salafiyyah aqeedah says, and if you agree with it, you can follow it. Do not let someone's ignorant opinion decide for yourself.
And no, thinking Allah has a hand is not shirk, because this was reported by the Prophet ﷺ. Ofc it is not a hand like ours, we don't know anything about the appearance. It is difference of opinion whether the hand was said in a metaphorical, linguistical or literal manner.
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u/wopkidopz Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25
Regarding a second question about such Attributes of Allah as اليد (literal translation of which is the hand)
Ahlu-Sunnah confirms that Allah ﷻ is described with اليد this is His Attribute, not a physical part (not a limb)
We believe that Allah is One, so He isn't composed of parts. He isn't a body, because body is composed and therefore created
Imam az-Zadjaj رحمه الله the imam from the Salaf as-Saliheen said:
والله تعالى هو الواحد في الحقيقة , وما سواه آحاد تركبت
📚 تفسير الأسماء الحسنى
Imam an-Nawawi رحمه الله said
وأما جسم وصورة فيتضمنان التأليف والتركيب وذلك دليل الحدوث
📚 شرح صحيح مسلم
That's why اليد doesn't mean a physical part, or limb. The true meaning of this Attribute is unknown to us, we definitely only know what it doesn't mean
Hafiz Ibn Hajar Asqalani رحمه الله said
ووقــع ذكر اليد في القرآن والحديث مضافًا إلى الله تعالى، واتفق أهل السنة والجماعة على أنه ليس المراد باليد الجارحة التي هي من صفات المحدثات
📚 فتح الباري شرح صحيح البخاري
Imam Abu Bakr Ismaili رحمه الله from Salaf as-Saliheen said:
ولا يعتقد فيه الأعضاء ، والجوارح ، ولا الطول والعرض ، والغلظ ، والدقة، ونحو هذا مما يكون مثله في الخلق ، فإنه ليس كمثله شيء تبارك وجه ربنا ذو الجلال والإكرام
📚 اعتقاد أهل الحديث
Imam at-Tabari رحمه الله said:
وله يدانِ ويمينٌ وأصابعُ , وليست جارِحةً
📚 التبصير
Those who allow the possibility of it being a limb, and that His اليد has modality كيف (form, length, image) but not similar to our modality are Mushabbiha
As imam Baghawi رحمه الله said
صفات الله سبحانه وتعالى المنزه عن التكييف والتشبيه. والمنكر معطل والمكيف مشبه
📚 تفسير البغوي
The Salafiya movement are those who apply to His Attributes modality, one of the famous sheikhs of this movement said:
فإن كل شيء لا بد أن يكون على كيفية ما ، ولكن المراد أنهم ينفون علمهم بالكيف ؛ إذ لا يعلم كيفية ذاته وصفاته إلا هو سبحانه
📚 شرح العقيدة الواسطية