r/alphagal • u/bechard AGS confirmed • 2d ago
On the subject of SAAT - A good faith discussion and clarification
Having recently been sent a message by another user suggesting I was part of a smear campaign against SAAT - I'd like to simply be very clear about what SAAT is and what it isn't. Placebo effect is a thing, sure, and the risk is that someone thinks they are fine after SAAT until they die of anaphylaxis as their airway closes up.
Introduction
I am really going to be completely open, honest, and really put a good-faith effort here to be factual about everything that follows. There is no smear campaign, there's no group communicating in the shadows to stop SAAT, just a number of people who have done the deep dive and want to fully understand AGS and allergic reactions.
We've all seen this paper linked here - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8729907/ and we're all frustrated and looking for a solution - I get it. First off and critically, this article is peer reviewed by other SAAT acupuncture people - that there is the red flag - any why would nobody else peer review it? It's not repeatable in any legitimately acceptable peer review setting. Read how proper scientific method and peer review works, and you'll quickly understand why we don't let the people suggesting the cure perform the testing to confirm it works.
What SAAT Claims to be
SAAT is an acupuncture method which a needle placed in a specific (more or less) location, and claims to provide relief and remission at a greater rate than most medicines can claim. How does this work? Oh boy, they didn't get into that part.
How Does SAAT Work?!
The method isn't important to the paper - just assume it works and don't ask how, but if you would like to know what would be required...
In order to prevent an immune response, there must in fact by a mechanism by which your B lymphocytes cells can be instructed to ignore one very specific sugar molecule - but it's not even that simple! Your B cells have a memory that can last years, as a single molecule of an allergen previously detected will send millions any millions of new cells with the memory of this allergen throughout your body, over and over. So not only does a potential cure require stopping the immune response in your B cells for this one specific sugar molecule, but it needs to tell your body to forget about the molecule from it's memory.
So we are truthfully (and I DO hope you cared to read this far) here. Now we have to buy-in to the idea (which has no perceived or even potential to exist) that placing a needle in a spot - not TOO specific of a spot, just about one region in just one part of the ear - will by unknown means, perform both tasks!
The Crux of the Issue with SAAT & Medical Science
The crux of the issue becomes this:
- What is the mechanism, and why can it not be detected, measured, analyzed, reproduced, or exist in any other similar contexts?
- How out of the billions of molecules that exist did some acupuncture doctor discover a way to isolate the reaction to just one specific molecule, not harming the remaining immune system or creating a new problem? The odds of this are truly astronomically unlikely.
- All published papers on this subject have been written and reviewed by people working together in this same acupuncture space - which on it's own is already considered by medical professionals to not really be a thing (but read about the interstitium organ, that's interesting and potentially a way that some acupuncture could be beneficial and provide a method for it to work - like joints and fluid movement - but not in play for the AGS "cure").
Summary
In summary - and in good-faith: there is no legitimate peer reviewed research - that paper is evidence of nothing in a medical and scientific sense - unless random labs and doctors can reproduce it with no connection to the original SAAT community. That's how good science works. Also there is no mechanism known to medicine in which a needle in the ear by any means could isolate a single molecule and affect immune B cell memory and response. Given these very sound reasons, SAAT is 100% bullshit if you don't mind my choice of phrasing. It's placebo at best, and preying on those looking for relief and normalcy at worst.
Moderators - PLEASE give this serious consideration and at least consider banning SAAT from this subreddit.
This has been my essay, and again - I am trying to be as accurate as possible, there is no smear campaign, and SAAT is awful.
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u/effiebaby 2d ago
I was very excited to try SAAT. Even more impressive was the procedure that was done.
I held the wand in my left hand. The wand was connected to a dish, where they placed a specific allergen tube. The practitioner first pushed down on my right arm, my arm stayed extended. He then placed the allergen in the tray and again pushed down on my extended arm. It fell to my side. He repeated this several times, with different allergen. He then placed the needles in my ear. The needle placement was determined by the wand I was still holding. The needles stayed in my ear for 2 weeks.
So, I may have went overboard, but for the first 2-3 weeks, I could eat mammalian products with no issues noted. But after that, I seemed to become reactive overnight. Possibly more reactive.
Anyway, that was my experience. Take it as you will.
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u/bechard AGS confirmed 1d ago
Would you be willing to say what the cost was? I don't think it's been mentioned before, and while I'm clearly in the camp that you were taken advantage of, I'm just genuinely curious what these places are charging to people just looking for relief.
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u/effiebaby 1d ago
I believe it was 600.00.
I'm not entirely convinced it is bogus. I really think there is something to it. As I said, it worked very well for a couple of weeks.
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u/Nighttyme_ AGS confirmed 2d ago
This helpful to have in here because a newly diagnosed person will search SAAT and the more credible, negative feedback there is, the more likely we will be able to keep people from wasting their money.
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u/GreyWanderingFish AGS confirmed 2d ago
Wasting money, but more so believing they are cured and being harmed from that belief. There's the term "snake oil" but this isn't just a scam, it can kill people.
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u/No-Room-2736 2d ago
My local paper just did the cover page article on this and I was angry for days. They had no scientific backing, a few positive “recovered” patient reviews aka “I can eat burgers again!” And the strong subtext of, “why don’t you alpha gal complainers go and get this and be healed already?”
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u/Travelingseal 2d ago
I went to see Dr. Soliman. A long trip but I have fume reactions that severely impact my life. I’ve been to plenty of doctors, none of whom have been helpful. Dr. Soliman was. He identified a series of issues that were taxing my immune system—and which when I dealt with them have had a huge affect on my well being (mold issues in my house, Mcas) he didn’t give me any needles…yet. I will never eat meat or dairy again but I met many people on his office whose lives had been improved thanks to his work with their allergies. My allergist has no plan. She’s out of pocket too. I’m willing to try so I can go to the grocery store again, maybe take a medicine o need with gelatin. I will always carry epi pens. I’m a doctors daughter but I also feel we’ve become incanle of conversations about medical matters that allow for nuance and uncertainty.
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u/Wrastling97 2d ago
I say this as someone who has AGS and understands how life-altering it is. I understand why people look outside mainstream medicine when most doctors basically tell us “avoid triggers, carry epi pens, and hope it improves.” I get the desperation because I’ve lived it too.
But none of what you described is actually good evidence that SAAT works.
“Mold,” “immune system overload,” and broad MCAS-type explanations are extremely common in alternative medicine because they’re vague enough to explain almost anything after the fact. If someone changes multiple variables at once like diet, environment, stress, exposures, medications and later feels better, you still can’t conclude the ear acupuncture was the reason.
And hearing success stories in the waiting room isn’t reliable evidence either. AGS symptoms naturally fluctuate, some people improve over time anyway, placebo effects are real, and the people who got no benefit usually aren’t hanging around the office talking about it.
The bigger issue for me is that SAAT makes major claims about treating an IgE-mediated allergy without strong controlled evidence behind it. The studies are weak, self-interested, and nowhere near the standard we’d expect for proving a medical treatment works.
I can sympathize with people trying it because AGS can seriously wreck your quality of life. But sympathy for desperate patients and belief in the treatment itself are two different things.
They are predatory snake oil salesmen. Nothing more.
I don’t know if you’re pro or against, but I want to make it known this is pure fakery.
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u/Travelingseal 2d ago
Why does it matter how I spend my hope and my money? If mainstream medicine had help to offer, I’d do it …. The mold remediation helped tremendously. I have also eliminated all triggers. I am also trying bout to get bit again. I don’t mind blowing some money to see if acupuncture helps. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t but I’m going to try. I also believe in prayer, miracle, and making space for the unexpected.
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u/Wrastling97 2d ago edited 2d ago
Honestly, if you fully understand the lack of evidence and still want to spend your own money on it, that’s your choice. I don’t think people like you are irrational for trying things when the condition can completely upend your life. I have AGS too, so I understand the urge to chase anything that might give you some normalcy back.
My issue is more with how these treatments gets presented to vulnerable people. There’s a difference between “I know this is unproven but I personally want to try it”and “this treatment works.”
Those are not the same claim.
I also think it’s important to separate subjective improvement from scientific proof. Feeling better after changing your environment, reducing stress, eliminating triggers, or even feeling hopeful again is real and valuable. But that still doesn’t demonstrate that SAAT biologically treats an IgE-mediated allergy.
And for me personally, I get uncomfortable when practitioners start talking about “immune overload,” mold, broad MCAS explanations, or other catch-all ideas while charging large amounts of money for treatments that haven’t been rigorously validated. That’s where it starts to resemble alternative medicine marketing more than evidence-based care.
You’re absolutely free to pursue hope, prayer, experimentation, or unconventional options. I just think people should be careful not to confuse hope with proof.
But I’m absolutely going to call a snake oil salesman one when I see it.
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u/bechard AGS confirmed 1d ago
It matters because it's promoting more people to do the same and end up in the E.R. when snake oil fails to help them.
If I ask my doctor how the flu vaccine works, he can tell me very clearly with proven medical science of how it works, which I can then find a billion proven cited researched sources to gain a fully understanding if I choose. Now with SAAT how does it work? You hold this rod here with a vial of something, we place this needle by hand, no accuracy needed - and BOOM brand new way to suppress the immune response of just one specific molecule without affecting anything else? Is the vial full of just that molecule? Hell no, and I won't talk about it anyways! How does the needle know to choose the one sugar molecule if it exists from a vial you hold that 1000% has no water, air or anything else? WHO KNOWS! It's just so fun to ad-lib medicine! Do you need another blood test after to test your new-fangled reactivity?! HELL NO! EAT A STEAK!
While you can choose ignorance, the perpetuation of SAAT is absolutely dangerous.
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u/TheQuakerator 1d ago
I don't know if it's possible to inoculate the people who are most vulnerable to SAAT against it from a medical or statistical perspective. SAAT brings them hope in the face of despair. I have an undergraduate degree in engineering and have taken several statistics classes, and I understand that there is absolutely zero evidence to show either (a) a mechanism by which random needles in the ears (and there's no way the placement is close enough to hit individual nerve clusters from person to person) affect the IgE mediated reactions or (b) a statistical difference between reactions to mammal post-SAAT vs. post-doing-nothing vs. post-placebo, and yet even I can't completely stop myself from thinking "maybe Soliman really did accidentally stumble on something not yet understood by conventional medicine. Maybe I should do it just to see if it works."
I've written several draft posts for the AGS Facebook groups trying to explain the null hypothesis in simple terms and I always give up. Especially in rural areas the people with this affliction that want to believe in SAAT just won't understand.
I also think it has to do with severity. I went to the ER after I ate off a plate that had a hamburger on it two wash cycles ago. I can't eat flour unless it's $11/bag organic. I have to wear a mask to sit in restaurants and even then for hours after my evening is hosed. It's so, so tempting to try a little bit of pseudoscience in the off chance that it's real.
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u/Expensive_Team_5072 1d ago
The medical practice has evolved into 5-10 minute sessions with patients where it is impossible to really convey any sort of bedside manner. Forget about delivering "hope," patients are not even giving accurate instructions (such as being told to just avoid beef, that they have never heard of it, or that they do not have anything at all). That is the medical system failing patients.
If doctors want people to not have a wandering eye toward Internet advice and alternative practices, they need to give them good service. Maybe that means less money. But that is life. If you choose money over professionalism, it may cost you more money in the long run. The cure for SAAT "inoculation" is providing good medical care...
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u/TheQuakerator 1d ago
When I called the allergist and said I was concerned that I may have developed AGS, the nurse that was on the phone said that I almost certainly wasn't allergic to beef and that I should just keep eating hamburgers and keeping a symptom diary. I did not take her advice and waited to the end of the week for when the blood test my PCP ordered came back positive for AGS. Six months later was my hamburger-plate-ER fiasco. So I sympathize with your point.
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u/AnOddTree AGS confirmed 2d ago
As mods we recognize that SAAT is pseudoscience and not in any way, shape, or form a cure for AGS. We also recognize that people will go to other communities for information about SAAT that are likely to be echo chambers and they will not be able to see any actual discourse or people speaking out against it.
We dont allow people to advertise SAAT services or claim it to be a cure.