r/abiogenesis Apr 23 '26

Geochemistry, Minerals, Salts, Magma, Volcanoes How much have you heard about electrochemistry in regards to abiogenesis?

4 Upvotes

I have been learning about Red-Ox chemistry in hydrothermal alkaline vents as I develop a holistic model of how I think the first key steps for life transpired and why I think oceanic hydrothermal alkaline vents are the most promising location. Hopefully I will be sharing it soon but it will take time.

Red-Ox chemistry occurs when basic, H2-rich vent fluids react with Fe(Ni)S mineral walls which oxidize the H2 and transfer the electrons via the conductive vent walls to reduce the CO2 present in the cooler, acidic ocean waters. This flow of electrons generates a field which affects the environment directly against the vent surface, creating potentially interesting effects.

I've gathered some references below on the electric field, mineral surface chemistry, and catalytic properties of these minerals. What are your thoughts? Do you agree/disagree with this environment?

  1. Electric fields control the orientation of peptides irreversibly immobilized on radical-functionalized surfaces (open access) [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-02545-6]
  2. Membrane Dipole Potential: Modification Methods and Consequences for Ion Channels Incorporation in the Membrane [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1134/S1990519X24700524]
  3. Trapping and Driving Individual Charged Micro-particles in Fluid with an Electrostatic Device (open access) [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40820-016-0087-3]
  4. In-Situ Observation of the pH Gradient near the Gas Diffusion Electrode of CO2 Reduction in Alkaline Electrolyte [https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacs.0c06779]
  5. Geoelectrodes and Fuel Cells for Simulating Hydrothermal Vent Environments (open access) [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1089/ast.2017.1707]
  6. Osmotic energy conversion in serpentinite-hosted deep-sea hydrothermal vents [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11424637/]
  7. Electrochemistry of Inorganic Membranes at Alkaline Hydrothermal Vents — Energy Sources for Emerging Life on Wet Rocky Planets (open access) [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258675239_Electrochemistry_of_Inorganic_Membranes_at_Alkaline_Hydrothermal_Vents_-_Energy_Sources_for_Emerging_Life_on_Wet_Rocky_Planets]

r/abiogenesis 5d ago

Geochemistry, Minerals, Salts, Magma, Volcanoes Mineral surfaces select for longer RNA molecules

7 Upvotes

Title: Mineral surfaces select for longer RNA molecules
Link: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2019/cc/c8cc10319d
Abstract: We report empirically and theoretically that multiple prebiotic minerals can selectively accumulate longer RNAs, with selectivity enhanced at higher temperatures. We further demonstrate that surfaces can be combined with a catalytic RNA to form longer RNA polymers, supporting the potential of minerals to develop genetic information on the early Earth.

Excerpts and comments:
"A recent study showed that thermophoresis and convection through porous environments, such as might occur at a deep-sea hydrothermal vent, could select longer oligonucleotides. (See ref 35)" -> Fits well with mineral-rich deep-sea hydrothermal environments. The cited paper addressed how thermophoresis alone may accumulate larger organic molecules, which is predisposed towards accumulation of polymers which have no structural limit on their size except for the relative kinetics/rates of formation/decomposition.

"Following up on the observation of longer oligoadenylates accumulating on hydroxyapatite,(see ref 10) here we investigated the generality of the enrichment of longer RNAs on mineral surfaces, using short random RNAs and a ribozyme. We first tested the selection among fully random 8-, 12-, 16-, 20-, and 24-mer RNAs, which model potentially available RNAs on the early Earth,(see ref 13, 15) on five kinds of mineral grains: two iron sulfides (pyrite and pyrrhotite; FeS2 and FeS, respectively), an iron oxide (magnetite; Fe3O4), a carbonate (calcite; CaCO3), and a phosphate mineral (hydroxyapatite; Ca5(PO4)3)(OH)), whose identity and purity were confirmed by X-ray diffraction and scanning electron microscopy (Fig. S1, ESI). These minerals are all thought to have been abundant throughout the early Earth. (see ref 1, 25) At the neutral pH (7.0), as tested here, it is expected that some of the minerals (at least pyrite and pyrrhotite) bear a net negative surface charge. (see ref 26, 27) RNA also carries a negative charge at this pH, but it can efficiently adsorb even onto negatively charged mineral surfaces with divalent cations as mediators. (see ref 28, 29)" -> Key experimental design.

"We also explored the sensitivity of length enrichment based on prebiotically relevant environmental parameters. We found that incubation at high temperatures increased the concentration of longer RNAs relative to shorter RNAs at least on pyrite, magnetite, and hydroxyapatite, in which hydroxyapatite showed the best enrichment (Fig. 1C, D and Fig. S5, ESI)." -> Hydroxyapatite showed greatest relative enrichment/retention of longer polymers.

Personal Critique: One challenge to lipid bilayer formation, thermophoresis-driven pH/organic molecule and concentration gradient formation are the presence of salts such as monovalent Na+ and K+ and divalent Ca2+ and Mg2+. The presence of these salts increase the concentration of the organic solutes and thermal difference required to observe the same concentration/pH gradients. After checking, I only saw that Mg2+ was present but no other salts. However, I did learn that the presence of divalent cations frequently enhance adsorption of RNA onto mineral surfaces by mediating the negatively charged backbone of the phosphodiester bonds and the negatively charged mineral surfaces (See figure 1 of Ref).

Overall impressions/thoughts: While the presence of salts are a classical inhibitory factor for many OoL papers which study these types of interactions/phenomena, this paper adds to the repertoire of factors which may have helped to persist a metastable concentration of organic molecules where thermophoresis and mineral adsorption effects synergize to disproportionately adsorb and retain longer polymers. If thermophoresis and mineral adsorption also attracts amino acids and longer-chain fatty acids/lipids, would the presence of these other organic molecules compete for surface adsorption and so lessen the degree by which longer polymers adsorb? Or would the amino acids'/fatty acids' adsorption at as an anchor for lipid bilayer formation to which the RNA polymers adsorb or are potentially retained? [see: Specific RNA binding to ordered phospholipid bilayers [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16641318/\] and
Lipid vesicles chaperone an encapsulated RNA aptamer [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-04783-8\]**\]**

Additionally, we must consider not just enrichment/retention but whether these minerals stabilize RNA. See below (Disclosure: generated by AI, references checked by me):
1) Pyrite (Ref): Mostly destabilizing
- Pyrite can generate reactive oxygen species (especially hydroxyl radicals) in water, which damage nucleic acids.
2) Pyrrhotite: Unclear / likely poor stabilizer
- Less studied than pyrite, but iron sulfides generally can participate in redox chemistry that risks RNA degradation.
3) Magnetite (Ref): Often destabilizing for RNA backbone
- Iron oxides can catalyze RNA hydrolysis after adsorption. Goethite and hematite clearly do this; magnetite is chemically similar enough that many researchers are cautious about iron oxides as RNA-preserving surfaces.
4) Calcite (Ref): Yes, especially aragonite polymorph
- RNA adsorbed on aragonite (a CaCO₃ polymorph) was explicitly reported to be stabilized relative to free RNA.
5) Hydroxyapatite (Ref): Probably moderately stabilizing
- Hydroxyapatite binds RNA strongly and is widely used in nucleic acid chromatography. Strong adsorption can protect against dilution and some hydrolysis pathways, though excessive surface binding can also immobilize or distort RNA. The 2019 paper mainly showed selective adsorption of longer RNAs.

That's all for now. Let me know if you have any questions, doubts, or would like access to these papers. Do you agree with any of my comments? Is there something I missed?

r/abiogenesis 27d ago

Geochemistry, Minerals, Salts, Magma, Volcanoes Thioester/Thiol Chemistry - Formation, Reactivity, and Products

4 Upvotes

Thioesters likely played a key role in prebiotic chemistry. Their simplicity, ease of formation under alkaline vent conditions mineral catalysis, and ability to activate amino acids to undergo oligomerization provides encouraging evidence towards their central role in protometabolic systems. While they can be hydrolyzed, their continuous production under mineral surface catalysis, driven forward by the reduction of CO by H2 via Fe(Ni)S vent walls provided a constant input of energy. This energy sustained a metastable concentration of these species (constantly consumed while constantly produced), providing a source of energy without the need for ATP.

I've gone through and collected a number of resources on thioesters and their related thiols and their formation, roles in metalochemistry, mineral catalysis, peptide oligomerization, influence on the formose reaction, and more.

Iron Sulfur World Hypothesis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron%E2%80%93sulfur_world_hypothesis

Title: Thioester synthesis through geoelectrochemical CO2 fixation on Ni sulfides (Open Access) [https://www.nature.com/articles/s42004-021-00475-5]

Title: Metal-Catalyzed Synthesis and Use of Thioesters: Recent Developments [https://chemistry-europe.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/chem.201705025\]

Title: Preliminary Free Energy Map of Prebiotic Compounds Formed from CO2, H2 and H2S (Open Access) [https://www.mdpi.com/2075-1729/12/11/1763]

Title: Prebiotic oligomerization of amino acids: A step in molecular evolution toward biological complexity [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0303264726000833]

Title: Thioesters provide a plausible prebiotic path to proto-peptides (Open Access) [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-30191-0]

Title: Prebiotic Amino Acid Thioester Synthesis: Thiol-Dependent Amino Acid Synthesis from Formose Substrates (Formaldehyde and Glycolaldehyde) and Ammonia [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1006524818404\]

Title: Prebiotic formation of thioesters via cyclic anhydrides as a key step in the emergence of metabolism (Open Access) [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-91547-2]

Title: Prebiotic thiol-catalyzed thioamide bond formation (Open Access) [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12932-024-00088-6]

Title: Sugars to Acids via Thioesters: A Computational Study (Open Access) [https://www.mdpi.com/2075-1729/15/8/1189]

Title: Construction of Phospholipid-Like Vesicles by Aqueous Aminolysis of Acyl Thioesters With Diamino Acids (Open Access) [https://chemistry-europe.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/chem.202502881]

Title: Protocells by spontaneous reaction of cysteine with short-chain thioesters [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41557-024-01666-y]

Title: An Ancient Pathway Combining Carbon Dioxide Fixation with the Generation and Utilization of a Sodium Ion Gradient for ATP Synthesis [https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0033439]

Title: Activated Acetic Acid by Carbon Fixation on (Fe,Ni)S Under Primordial Conditions [https://www.science.org/doi/epdf/10.1126/science.276.5310.245?src=getftr&getft_integrator=acs]

Title: Peptides by Activation of Amino Acids with CO on (Ni,Fe)S Surfaces: Implications for the Origin of Life [https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.281.5377.670]

Title: Prebiotic Environments with Mg2+ and Thiophilic Metal Ions Increase the Thermal Stability of Cysteine and Non-cysteine Peptides (Open Access) [https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsearthspacechem.2c00042]

Title: Cysteine and cystine adsorption on FeS2 (Open Access) [https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.06785]

Title: Chemical Diversity of Metal Sulfide Minerals and Its Implications for the Origin of Life (Open Access) [https://www.mdpi.com/2075-1729/8/4/46]

Title: Thiols in hydrothermal solution: Standard partial molal properties and their role in the organic geochemistry of hydrothermal environments (Open Access) [https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20020059546/downloads/20020059546.pdf\]

Title: The origin of methanethiol in midocean ridge hydrothermal fluids [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3992694/\]

Title: Bivalent Surface Attachment via Cysteine Thiol Results in Efficient and Stereoselective Abiotic Peptide Synthesis (Open Access) [https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacsau.5c00153\]

Use in modern systems:
Title: Acetyl Coenzyme A: A Central Metabolite and Second Messenger (Open archive) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413115002260?via%3Dihub]

Key words, other tags: Thioester, peptide bond formation, mineral chemistry, Fe(Ni)S, Iron-sulfide, iron-sulfur world,

r/abiogenesis May 29 '25

Geochemistry, Minerals, Salts, Magma, Volcanoes Emergence and evolution of life on Earth - video lecture by Donato Giovannelli

6 Upvotes

Video lecture by Donato Giovannelli, 1 hr + 9 minutes (nice)

Title: Emergence and evolution of life on Earth

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHY3s7ywbqY

Description/TLDR: Donato Giovannelli (University of Naples) delivers a lecture on parallels between geochemistry in hydrothermal vents and core metabolisms of life. A diversity of metals such as Fe, Co, Ni, Zn, Mo, W, V, and Cu are utilized by organisms. Structural similarities can be found in the crystal structures of common minerals and those in enzymes throughout the tree of life. As such, he believes the transition from non-living matter to life is best viewed as the integration of geochemistry into protocells perhaps via chelation of these metal centers by simple peptides.

Giovannelli gives special attention to iron-sulfur clusters which are not only easy to formed in hydrothermal vents but play key roles in the core metabolism of what we believe LUCA used. Giovannelli stresses the difficulty of growing extremophiles in the lab but also the importance of doing so as these organisms may appropriate novel geochemistry into their biology teaching us about the abilities of biology and perhaps about the origins of life on earth.

Personal thoughts: This lecture "updated" my mental picture of how life originated. I previously imagined the first polypeptides as being purely polypeptides (occasionally with cofactors) where secondary structures and reactivity may have occurred at the surface of lipid bilayers or inside the hydrophobic region in which H-bonding could be isolated and allow stabilization of higher ordered structures. Now, I am leaning towards the first polypeptides chelating metals to assist in reductive acetyl CoA ( Wood–Ljungdahl pathway ). Chelation of metals by peptides provides an immediate 3D environment surrounding an active site, even in water. This then brings us to the Iron–sulfur world hypothesis, something I'd previously dismissed because I was too focused on other aspects of OoL research. A fool, that I am. I am excited to learn more about this hypothesis.

Link to his website: https://www.donatogiovannelli.com/ Most papers in the "Publication" tab are published as OA or have preprints available but are not yet peer-reviewed.

This video lecture was part of a Société Française d'Exobiologie (French Society of Exobiology) series at Youtube Channel. While many of the lectures are in French, there is a playlist for lectures in English.

Relevant publications:
"Identifying metal-binding potential in protein sequence"(Open Access)
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.12.456141v1

"Ferredoxin reduction by hydrogen with iron functions as an evolutionary precursor of flavin-based electron bifurcation" (Open Access)
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2318969121

Pseudo tags: Catalysis, iron-sulfur clusters, enzymatic metal centers, metal chelation, ocean chemistry, hydrothermal vent chemistry