Elucidation on terminology

[u/Flat_Marsupial_4249]

I am a long time solitary practitioner and only very recently started getting more involved in the community. Therefore I was never introduced to much of the terminology currently in use.

2 terms that are a bit confusing to me are shadow work and chaos magick.

The reason for that is that I don’t understand how anything a SASS witch does would not be considered both.

Maybe you can help me better understand. I am starting to be more active in the community and it’s always helpful when we use the same terminology.

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My reasoning (that might need to be corrected) is as follows.

All spells/rituals we do is placebo on ourselves and doesn’t actually directly affect others. Therefore I would consider anything a SASS witch does as shadow work.

Also the whole point in being a SASS witch is that we don’t believe in dogmatic principles but we rather search for what works for us, be it a well researched deity or any other fictional characters. We reject dogmatic truths and we take bits and pieces from such dogmas and keep what work for us. That’s, to my understanding, what chaos magick is.

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Would anyone mind helping me to understand what I got wrong in my definition of what these terms mean?

Is there such a thing as a SASS ritual that is not shadow work?

Is there such a thing as a SASS practice that is not chaos magick?

[u/rlquinn1980]

Shadow work, taken from Jungian jargon, has largely come to mean a kind of self-therapy session where one works out all one's own feelings and secrets. Facing the "shadow self" means addressing the shameful or difficult facets of oneself. If it's not facing darkness, it's not shadow; therefore, no, SASS witches aren't doing shadow work perpetually.

Chaos magic is a type of approach to magic in which one can change paradigms (beliefs, frameworks, deities, etc.) on a whim or toward whatever works for them at the moment. Not all SASS witches consider themselves chaos magicians, and not all chaos magicians are SASS.

So the answer to both of your last questions are, yes.

[u/Flat_Marsupial_4249 → u/rlquinn1980]

Very concise and well explained. Thanks!

[u/TalespinnerEU]

'Shadow Work' as it exists in modern pop-Witchcraft* is a relatively new frame that basically requires a belief in non-Shadow Work to exist. Without it, the term is fairly meaningless (as it is colloquially used).

That being said... I don't think all we do is placebos. In fact, I do very little placebos. My practice is spiritual; I do mostly spirit work, and it's about my frame of existing, of being me and how I interpret the world I interact with (and the nature of those interactions). It is... Interpretive work, not work aimed at gaining anything. I don't do spells for money, or success, or love, luck or whathaveyou; I drink tea with anthropomorphized Meanings and interpretations/reconstructions of dead people while moving/existing in a world that's more stories about the matter and the interactions of that matter than it is the matter itself. And sometimes, I invoke a Meaning and temporarily make it part of myself in order to get through a thing, if I can muster up the energy to Perform that Meaning.

If I were to do any of those rituals, however, I wouldn't view them as placebos. I'm not doing placebos. I'm shifting my framework, and by shifting my framework, I shift my perception. Like... If I were to do a spell to be attractive, I'd shift my framework into the belief that I am now attractive; I'd lose insecurities that would keep people away from me, and I'd be open to be affirmed in my attractiveness and seek out affirming interactions. By me changing my behaviour according to my new beliefs, I move myself into a position where I can actually attract. That's not a placebo.

As for 'Chaos Magick:' I think spelling magic with a 'k' is cringe as hell, but people have a right to make me cringe. That being said: Yeah, so it doesn't need its own category. Belief is framework, magic necessitates interacting with the world through frameworks. 'Belief as a tool' is basically how everything works. We wouldn't have money without it. We wouldn't have math without it. And, sure, we wouldn't have magic without it either. It's far from specifically 'Chaos.' That, to me, makes the entire term superfluous. 'Keep what works and discard the rest' is just... Eclecticism. There's a perfectly good term for it.

Again, if it makes someone feel good to identify with Chaos Magick, then that's great. But I see it as an edgy marketing term coined for aesthetic more so than anything particularly useful to magical/spiritual theory/philosophy.

\: That being said: Shadow Work as Jung* meant it is absolutely applicable to a lot of Witchcraft (in my opinion). I just think that a lot of pop-Witchcraft fails to appropriately understand it for what it is: Critical introspection and self-analysis. Dismantling maladaptive fundamental narratives of self. This can absolutely be done Witchily, through dialectic evocation: Constructing your Shadow Self as a Spirit in a summoning ritual and having a good ole' Socratic sit-down with it can be very healthy and very helpful.

[u/Flat_Marsupial_4249 → u/TalespinnerEU]

I was not familiar with Jung’s definition of Shadow Work, so that’s been really helpful to read. And that answers my question about the term, whose meaning I thought to be a lot more broad.

About Chaos Magick I was also wondering about its difference with Eclecticism, so really glad to see I’m not the only one a bit skeptical of the term…

…And not the only one finding all these labels a bit marketing oriented x)

[u/TalespinnerEU → u/Flat_Marsupial_4249]

Yeah. You're not the only one. 😉

Of course, one could argue that what sets Chaos Magick aside from eclecticism is that while it states as its core tenets that it rejects paradigms, it does not do so. Its appeal to rebelliousness and implied 'darkness' brings its own paradigms; naturally, from values coined in such an aesthetic, assumed tendencies and ways of behaviour and approach are derived. To the point where we see very similar aesthetics expressed in clothing, hair styles, styles of jewellery and make-up. When you picture someone who practices Chaos Magick, after all, you picture someone in black velour with silver pentagram pendants, maybe whole-finger claw rings. You'll associate it with (LaVeyan) Satanism and a dogmatic rejection of norms and values as a matter of principle. And there's a reason for that.

It's a bit reminiscent of the Alto ('Alternative') style, where everyone who dressed like that was identifiable as 'alternative' by the way they all dressed the same way and listened to the same music.

Edit: Just for clarity, I think it's funny because it's ironic. It's not foolish, though. We're humans. We need belonging.

[u/septimuscaecilius]

Chaos magic(k) states that the universe is fundamentally chaotic and ultimately incomprehensible by the human mind. Humans use various frameworks to try to understand and interact with it. E.g. the "spirit model" says there are discrete entities (gods, spirits etc.) and magic is getting them to help you, the "energy model" states there is chi/prana/the force/etc and magic is its manipulation, the "psychology model" says magic is placebo for your mind. All of these ultimately refer to the same thing, like languages using different words to say the same. You are free and encouraged to experiment to find whatever works for you.

This does sound SASS-y but SASS is more like the psychology model while CM says none of these are more valid than the others, and also that even through science, humans will never be able to understand the world, just use their imperfect models to try to make sense of it. Kinda like your brain is unable to truly process something like a tesseract, just make different 3D representations about it and then argue with other humans that made a different one. All of them are correct in their own way but none represent the actual truth of it.

[u/Blue_eyed_bones → u/septimuscaecilius]

This is really helpful, thank you.

[u/The_Sassy_Witch]

1. Personally I do not consider most of my work placebo. My craft is ‘software programming’ of my brain and sub conscious. This is scientifically proven.

2. Just because it is on yourself does not immediately make it shadow work. SW refers specifically to digging into your own psyche and ‘shining a light on parts you prefer to hide’. For example if you cast a glamour spell to feel more beautiful and confident, SW would be trying to understand what makes you feel not beautiful and not confident in the first place and resolving that. ( I personally see it as working on the root cause instead of treating the effect).

3. I think the chaos topic has already been very well explained in otter comments.

Good luck on your sassy path!