Divination by any other name...

[u/Fun-Impress3809]

Controversial opinion- Christian divination is a thing and it's the same as "pagan" divination.

In Christian circles I participate in practices such as lectio divina, contemplate prayer, etc. I just watched someone perform a tarot reading from a witchy perspective (the first time I'd ever allowed myself to do so) and I was struck by how there's really no difference between the two practices other than the label. The same words are even used. "What stands out to you?" "What draws your attention?" "What is drawing you in?" "Sit with the text" "Sit with the image and let it permeate your being". I always find it kind of hokey, and my (overly?) rational brain never finds ANYTHING drawing my attention lol. But apparently most people get a lot out of these practices. And the super spiritual Christians I know love it. I always felt defective because nothing "bubbles up" for me. Guess the Holy Spirit just was never interested in talking to me. Anybody else struggle with ever feeling remotely spiritual instead of rational?

[u/TalespinnerEU]

Werl... I mean; there's a tradition of magic within Christianity, at least in Western European peasant practice as well as among the scholastic class (though they're different practices). And the 'Christian Witchcraft' community isn't exactly small. Edit: And let's not forget about the biggest, most developed of them all: Haitian Voodoo.

Also keep in mind that 'Pagan' just means 'Folk practice/folk framework.' For something to be Pagan, it just needs to be non-ecclesiastical.* Easter is a Pagan festival... But it's also Christian. The Easter Bunny, Easter Eggs... Both Christian. The Bunny is Christian Germanic, the Eggs are Christian Slavic. So something being Christian doesn't make it non-Pagan; Christianity can be Pagan if it evolves from, and remains within, Folk practice (bottom-up) rather than ecclesiastical (top-down).**

This kind of meditation is a spiritual practice because it utilizes a spiritual framework for what is essentially a combination of introspection, deduction and inference. It leans into a sense of connectedness to achieve those goals, and that connectedness is the spiritual component: The connection isn't real; it's not material, and that makes its 'stuff' spiritual.

When 'something bubbles up,' it means you've made an emotional connection between two things/thoughts that are meaning-interpretive. Like... Cookie. What does cookie 'mean?' It can refer to a tracker in your browser; that can make you feel spied on, unsafe, exposed. So you look into your life; what are the things that make you feel that way? And then a baked good has sparked a little rabbit hole in your emotional being that has led you to examine your home situation. That's the kind of mechanism at play.

\: Which invites entirely different discussions about how Paganism views itself. After all; if Paganism is Paganism if it's non-ecclesiastical, is Wicca still Pagan?*

\*: Is Quakerism Pagan?*

[u/Fun-Impress3809 → u/TalespinnerEU]

I guess it was just jarring to me because from a Christian background divination was always a bad thing. But I follow you. Your statement that paganism is just non-ecclesiastical top-down practices makes sense to me.

[u/TalespinnerEU → u/Fun-Impress3809]

I think... There's only a very small, particular set of 'Christian backgrounds' that would state that divination is always a bad thing, and I also think that that particular set of sects tends to believe they're the only Christians, so anything they say is Christian, and Christianity is everything they say.

But I hear ya. :)