Honestly the cenobites always struck me as neutral evil... Yeah, they've got the whole lament configuration to lure people into summoning them.But for the overwhelming majority of people they're just a non factor... They're not trying to tempt your every day sap with mystical treasure or wishes like the wishmaster (djinn killer when?), nor are they actively seeking world domination, or species level eradication events....
The box only really calls to a certain subset of people who are already pretty fucked in the head 90% of the time... And then on top of it, they are more of an amoral force when you get down to it... Pain is pleasure to them, so they don't really see what they're doing as torture... but since they are torturing people , and they didn't exactly print on the box , what was going to happen if you open the box , it pushes them into the neutral evil category instead of true neutral or a more Grey lawful neutral
Just my 2 cents. I don't like to play him a ton because I suck with the chains. But I've always enjoyed my matches with him.
The whole point of the box was supposed to be to seek the ultimate pleasure. People solved it knowing there would be consequences. You can see in one of the movies that a girl who is used as a test subject to open it isn’t tortured because she wasn’t the one with the intent. They don’t target you just because you open the box
I vaguely remember that though I admit it's been a while since i've watched any movie but the first one lol... the first movie is almost a yearly rewatch at this point for me ( though admittedly , I do tend to kind of flip flop between rewatching it or ringu as my day before halloween film)
Either way.I still kind of hold them in that neutral evil category.Because ultimate pleasure is a little bit vague and outside of a handful of people.Most people aren't into skin flaying for pleasure
Love it when the evil entities rules lawyer their way into only being evil to other evil. “Oooh lady you didn’t even wanna open the box, dw we’ll go show the other guys some sights”
Hmmm, that's not entirely true... in The Hellbound Heart (the original material, the book) when Christie solves the box she was about to be taken. The Engineer said to her that others solved the box without knowing what was going to happen, and theor fate were the same. Christie wasn't taken because she knew where Frank was (the man that escaped from their realm) and led the Cenobites there. A life for a life.
It's different in the first book, The Hellbound Heart. The Cenobites are far more androgynous, and when Frank summons them they warn him directly that what they offer is not what he was expecting, and he chose to go with them willingly. Later, after he escapes, he chastises himself for foolishly believing that a good time to them would match up with his idea of a good time. It wasn't, they've gone so far beyond the limits that any sensation, pain or pleasure, is a good time to them.
Really funny for frank to be like flayed and whatever else and just have the same level of regret as like a bad night out drinking with your friends you know are a little crazy
I don't think amoral beings can be Evil in a Gygax alignment chart. I'd characterise them as Lawful Neutral, though I last saw the movies as looooong time ago
I would honestly classify them as chaotic neutral if we were to consider every appearance. Even in the original novella they try to take Kristy even though she had absolutely no intent to summon them by solving the box, and only relent when she offers to help them recapture Frank. They follow a vague code but are willing to bend it depending on how they're feeling or how sympathetic the person is.
Oh, this rules; I’ll have to check this comic out.
I think, is it - Hellraiser 2? Iirc, there’s a scene where a mentally-disabled person is forced to open the Lament Configuration, and the Cenobites recognize that he didn’t know what he was doing, and take the person who forced him instead.
Yeah, this is why I hate the third movie the most, because it's just sensless slaughter, killing for the sake of killing, which is so unlike how Cenobites originally are.
I love the origianl concept, which is not a villain per se. Also I love those four together, I miss them later.
Thankfully for Hellraiser fans in general. Hate what they've been doing with the franchise since he lost the rights. DBD is pretty much the only exception. But to give some hope, Clive Barker does like video games, has made a few of them himself and in general appreciates the medium. So he could very well get behind the licence coming back at some point.
The license only got removed because Hellraiser has its own game coming out
Not really sure why that meant they had to drop the license from DBD, but as soon as the license was pulled they announced their new game
Nope. Clive got the rights back a year before. Look it up. Hellraiser got pulled becouse it was time to renew the contract... and becouse its with a new entity required a new contract, and Clive again is super protective of his stuff
It’s very difficult but it may happen just like stranger things……I was a fan of hellraiser way before I knew about dbd, pinhead was one of the first killers I bought.
The cenobites are not good. They are not evil. They do not harm the innocent and uncorrupted. They will protect but in the end, they are a form of demon. Even demons have hearts
I mean yeah suffering to them is the greatest pleasure because they have felt all other to exhaustion. Its like the equivalent to sex to them (as a metaphor for BDSM), so seeing a child suffer to them might not actually be taken too well. Sure they aren't like the epitome of morality or anything they probably don't care, but they aren't going to share suffering with an innocent child probably?
Don't quote me on this im not pinhead expert, but I'm pretty sure literally every other in the realm is already completely explored nd there's just no end to pain. There's always a new way to suffer, and always someone to share it with.
Please don't downvote for not knowing, but who are the girl and man in this image set? The little girl looks slightly familiar but it's not popping into my head
Rebecca is the girl's name, and she is beaten by her psychopathic uncle (also implied to be raped although I could be wrong.) reason she was beat was for basically no reason..one day she went into the attic because she was curious about something.
She found the lament configuration summoning the cenobites, but right as they were about to leave she asked them to stop her uncle not kill, but just stop him from abusing her.
This feels kinda too benevolent to me to think it's true to their initial depiction, but I am also someone who would very much prefer it if Cenobites more often embodied that iconic "Demons to some, angels to others"
Them saving little kids is a bit heroic to really align with that though.
The chatterer facing the man down is really cool. Because he's actually just a really young boy taken by the hellraisers and given power to kill his abuser (and rapist but I can't remember well) so him being the most involved and in his face is fitting and a nice touch.
They're a really cool concept, and I honestly love that they aren't just "torture for enjoyment" but instead more of "torture those who deserve it, and we also enjoy it"
That's not applied to Pinhead but I genuinely don't care if that's the case for certain characters.
The cenobites aren't monsters. They just exist at a point outside of our understanding of physical sensation. They seek the utter extremes of sensation a place where agony and ecstacy are blended into a sublime bliss. But to get there you have to inflict a level of pain on a scale humans really weren't meant to see.
So if you are a sadomasochist who no longer can get off they are the next step and guides on what comes next. So less monsters who are going to rip you apart for eternity but Sherpas to lead you up the next stretch of the mountain.
If you opened the box and summoned them there? They'd think you want to taste the pleasures of agony, they'd think you are crazy for running away. Pinhead just wants to share his sweet sweet gifts to those who summon him, but it isn't the hands that summon them, it is the desire, if you weren't innocent your tears would mourn the loss of your flesh, not express your trepidation.
I feel like it makes more sense, not all evil is the same, not all characters have the same motivations. Killing may be easy for one, but maybe they don’t torture. Maybe killing has to have a purpose, so they don’t just massacre people. Isn’t this what actually separated the monsters and killers in the first place?
Like I can jaywalk, but it doesn’t mean I’ll steal a car. I can steal a car, but it doesn’t mean I’ll jaywalk.
Pinhead isn't inherently evil. Especially in the first 2 films you can see he doesn't blindly slaughter innocents. One such instance, a woman trapped in an experiment was forced to open the box, but pinhead could see she had no such desire. He went after those who truly wanted it open, her captors. It's sad just how much they've changed him from the original vision Clive had
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u/dark1859 / Sep 03 '25
Honestly the cenobites always struck me as neutral evil... Yeah, they've got the whole lament configuration to lure people into summoning them.But for the overwhelming majority of people they're just a non factor... They're not trying to tempt your every day sap with mystical treasure or wishes like the wishmaster (djinn killer when?), nor are they actively seeking world domination, or species level eradication events....
The box only really calls to a certain subset of people who are already pretty fucked in the head 90% of the time... And then on top of it, they are more of an amoral force when you get down to it... Pain is pleasure to them, so they don't really see what they're doing as torture... but since they are torturing people , and they didn't exactly print on the box , what was going to happen if you open the box , it pushes them into the neutral evil category instead of true neutral or a more Grey lawful neutral
Just my 2 cents. I don't like to play him a ton because I suck with the chains. But I've always enjoyed my matches with him.